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speaking of myths

lwilliams's picture

speaking of myths (post #154246)

lwilliams on Wed, 07/14/2010 - 05:16
in

This video not only offers insights into why many are involved in woodworking but also what went wrong on Wall Street and why it's not going to be fixed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

-A +A
gdblake's picture

Thanks for sharing this link (post #154246, reply #1 of 11)

by gdblake in reply to lwilliams [original] on Wed, 07/14/2010 - 11:39

Larry:

Thanks for sharing this link.  This is actually Psychology 101.  Most people will do just about anything to meet basic survival needs of breathing, drinking, eating, clothing, & shelter.  Once the basics are covered then the motivations for behavior go into grey areas, but most revolve around perceptions of self-worth.  I've never known the government (socialist) tactic of telling people they must work more, or do with less to benefit someone else to be a motivator.  That is because the government is telling you that the someone else is more important (has more worth) than you.  Plus that thinking violates people's desire for self-direction (which ties back into self-worth).  There are plenty of people who, once they have the basics covered, are willing to share what they have with others who, for reasons beyond their control, cannot provide the basics for themselves.  Their willingness to do this also ties back into self-worth.

Unfortunately, some people's self-worth is determined by how much that can take from (or control) others, even if that means they are destroying the other person's ability to meet their own basic needs.  History is full of governments that were run by these kind of people.

gdblake 

We're all here because we're not all there.

Lataxe's picture

Kontrollers (post #154246, reply #2 of 11)

by Lataxe in reply to gdblake [original] on Wed, 07/14/2010 - 14:27

GD,

You propose:

"Unfortunately, some people's self-worth is determined by how much that can take from (or control) others, even if that means they are destroying the other person's ability to meet their own basic needs.  History is full of governments that were run by these kind of people".

I think you'll find the most Kontrollers residing in private industry, especially in Big Corp Inc.  Why is this?  Well, such organisations (unlike our Western governments) are extremely undemocratic and extensively hierarchical.  It's now the Divine Rights of CEOs.

Many studies demonstrate the point mentioned by the video concerning people's better performance when they control themselves and are not enslaved by remote powers issuing crazy orders from way on high.  However, this truth does not please The Kontrollers, who much prefer to keep those hierarchies and their positions of power at the top of them.  Since they do hold all the power and there is no effective mechanism to question the hierarchical arrangements, their status quo retains and exerts an enormous inertia.......... 

The Kontrollers are also quite happy to suborn government and its agencies of course, as Big Oil has recently demonstrated.  Only an enormous disaster will stir the peasants to demand a better governance by those governments. Even Fox News would find it hard to blame the gulf debacle on a government conspiracy however.

Lataxe, always surprised by you government-bashing lads, who seem unable to grasp how really bad your life would become without one.  Y'all need to read Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan".

gdblake's picture

Kontrollers rule Big Corp (post #154246, reply #4 of 11)

by gdblake in reply to Lataxe [original] on Wed, 07/14/2010 - 17:44

Lataxe:

I don't disagree with your Kontrollers rule Big Corps post.  I'm not as anti government as my post sounded.  I realize government is necessary.  But most of written history isn't about companies, its about countries.  History is full of guys like Hitler, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, the Caesars, various "royals", etc.  Religion tends to draw these people as well (I'm not bashing belief here).    For some reason when people get in groups we like to put self serving nut jobs in charge.

gdblake

We're all here because we're not all there.

Lataxe's picture

Nut Jobs (post #154246, reply #5 of 11)

by Lataxe in reply to gdblake [original] on Thu, 07/15/2010 - 03:35

GD,

Tee hee, your collective noun for those Kontrollers tickled my humouroids.  And they certainly do serve themselves, in every appetite known to mankind along with several others known only to devils and ogres.

As you say, history of the prevalent kind within the texts and groves of academe often concerns itself with the various heroes and anti-heroes of political organisations.  But there is now an extensive set of historical research pertaining to other aspects of the past which considers organisations and traditions other than those of the rulers, politicians and churches.  It is an addictive pastime, reading the various theories and proposals concerning the evolution of human societies and their informing ideas. 

As to naughty governments and the sometime-monsters who form them - well, power does often amplify the worst aspects of human nature.  But not always, especially if the government arises out of our democratic tradition and is subject to those famous checks and balances. 

The greatest danger (it seems to me) for we Western democracies at present seems to be the reluctance or failure of government to resist corruption by those Kontrollers.  This often takes the form of no regulations for the Kontrollers and plenty of regulations for the potentially revolting peasants. Add a Pravda-like grip on the mass media by the Kontrollers and their publicity departments - now providing 90% of the "news" -  and it is no wonder that governments seem unable to govern, thus seeming  to represent a problem rather than a solution to the improvement of peasant-life.

Still, I wouldn't care to live in Burma or Zimbabwe...........

Lataxe, a naive believer in democracy and pluralism, along with his old-fashioned republicanism. Probably some kinda hippie.  :-)

 

derekcohen's picture

Hi Gregory and David Thank (post #154246, reply #7 of 11)

by derekcohen in reply to gdblake [original] on Fri, 07/16/2010 - 19:26

Hi Gregory and David

Thank you for such wonderful posts! I had a good giggle .. slightly hysterically since there is a great deal of truth in all.

For some reason when people get in groups we like to put self serving nut jobs in charge.

Do they put their hands up for the job, or do we ask them to do so?

We now have an ex-Prime Minister. The ruling party in Australia, Labor, recently booted out their leader. He started out as Mr Good Guy with everyone's best interests at heart. He developed into The Autocrat (stll smiling, but narcissitically confused at the turn of events). When his decisions became increasingly strange and clearly rudderless, leading to panic in the economy, he was voted out for another. Only one other put up their hand for the job ....

Regards from Perth

Derek

DanCC's picture

And the second act... (post #154246, reply #8 of 11)

by DanCC in reply to derekcohen [original] on Sun, 07/18/2010 - 20:37

And your new PM seems to have decided to try to make sure she gets to keep the power she aquired a few week ago.  Called a snap election before anyone gets the chance to have similar feeling about her that did in the last bloke.  I do enjoy the speed at which you folks with a Westminister system of government can pole ax a leader.  Something to be said for it -- we on the other hand are stuck with BO until 2012, no  matter how badly his policy and friends loose in November.    Rudd seemed to have been a nice enough guy; the speed with which he was sacked was truely amazing.  Even amoung Westminister systems, you Australians have a nack for political fights that are down right breath taking.

DanC

WillGeorge's picture

I worked in the metal and (post #154246, reply #6 of 11)

by WillGeorge in reply to Lataxe [original] on Thu, 07/15/2010 - 09:01

I worked in the metal and printing job for most of my life.. I worked with computers and software mostly with printing..

I sure love this old Homer video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gMrG5lkYeg&feature=related

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!

WillGeorge's picture

Latake.. I would bet wour (post #154246, reply #10 of 11)

by WillGeorge in reply to Lataxe [original] on Tue, 07/27/2010 - 10:22

Latake.. I would bet wour Lady Wife could make you do anything she asked. My lovely wife could do that to me in a heart beat...

She was my lover and a very close friend.

Lataxe, always surprised by you government-bashing lads, who seem unable to grasp how really bad your life would become without one.  I agree.. I only thought my lady ruled over me because I chose to let her do it.. She knew that I let her do it. And then again I always thought of her as the real boss... We did it and we got along for many years together.. Nobody was the 'boss'.. We just let each other to be the boss for a short time... Hard to explain.. We just played a game at being 'the Boss'. Neither of us liked the job being the boss.... We were better at just being good friends...

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!

WillGeorge's picture

This is actually Psychology (post #154246, reply #11 of 11)

by WillGeorge in reply to gdblake [original] on Tue, 07/27/2010 - 10:28

This is actually Psychology 101?? I wonder.. I have babysitted more than a few little children. Yes a man can babysit a child.. Not all men are creeps! I have learned more from little children than anything that I have learned in High School or College!

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!

Lataxe's picture

More Psychology Revelations (post #154246, reply #3 of 11)

by Lataxe in reply to lwilliams [original] on Wed, 07/14/2010 - 14:45

Mr Williams,

I see you are a scholar of the hooman mind and its queer ways.  May I therefore recommend to you these books - which you may already have come across, in which case.......

The former is very revealing concerning many of the "common sense" assumptions folk make about why people do as they do. It contains, amongst much other stuff, the observations made in that video you linked us to. 

The second illustrates (in a rather pedestrian fashion I'm afraid) what may eventually become the major ideological challenge to the pernicious hegemony of global capitalism and its unaccountable elite - not because it is a persuasive ideology per se but rather because it works in very practical ways; and is spreading without directly having to challenge the aforementioned hegemony. 

Indeed, even big corporations are finding its non-hierarchical and non-controlling mechanisms of great benefit to their bottom lines, apaprently; perhaps the only thing that will persuade them to give up their undemocratic and elitist nonsense.  The book describes the mechanisms and psychologies of leaderless organisations composed of self-directed participants, such as Craiglist and similar markets (but not just markets).  Knots and other such forums is one such organisation-type that the book doesn't mention.  Self-help writ large via cyberspace.

http://www.amazon.com/Irrationality-Stuart-Sutherland/dp/1905177070/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279143165&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Starfish-Spider-Unstoppable-Leaderless-Organizations/dp/1591841836/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1279143120&sr=1-1

Lataxe, always looking for reason to be hopeful about the future (sometimes desperately).

WillGeorge's picture

Only thing that kept me sane (post #154246, reply #9 of 11)

by WillGeorge in reply to Lataxe [original] on Mon, 07/19/2010 - 13:05

Only thing that kept me sane in the 'working world' was that when I came home after a month (or more) of hard work. My Lady was always waiting for me. She cared for me and MOSTLY her babies.. Whatever age they were... I guess I was one of her babies to care for? 

My lady, I would think, much like your lady... She just loves you and tries to put up with your nonsence!

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!