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Shopmade wood putty (post #168331)

jyang949 on Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:52 (updated 07/21/11 - 07:59)

Wood and Materials

How much hot hide glue do you mix with sawdust--or rather, what consistency? Barely holding together, a very sticky mass, or something in-between?

Since the glue has color, do you use sawdust from a lighter-colored wood, instead of the wood that you are filling?

Janet

Wood putty ? (post #168331, reply #1 of 6)

by roc in reply to jyang949 [original] on Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:02

Doesn't anybody screen these calls ?

Ha Ha Ha

Mostly kidding.

Probably if you want to follow this line you should experiment each time on cut offs and scrap of the wood you are currently using until you are satisfied with you results. Kind of like mixing paint on a pallet until you get the color you are after.

I just leave any natural "flaws" knot holes etc unfilled. I go for one or two in a considered fashion but anything that is not interesting should be cut out before the plank is cut to size.

Most here I think use epoxy to fill holes. Hide glue has water in it and will shrink. Epoxy does not shrink appreciably. It does not "dry" it cures by cross linking and so it hardens rather than dries.

PS: as far as color and type of wood :

I don't do this but I would think the same wood and from the same plank is a must. You could dye the glue if you need to.

If you cut some thing wrong best to start again rather than poke glue and stuff at it. Most repairs are going to show in one light or another or in the future from differential in sun fading etc.

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

Doesn't anybody screen these (post #168331, reply #2 of 6)

by jyang949 in reply to roc [original] on Fri, 07/22/2011 - 13:35

Doesn't anybody screen these calls ?

Ha Ha Ha

Mostly kidding.

Uh-oh. For the record, I did experiment before posting, knowing that beginner questions can be annoying to people with more experience. But I decided to ask anyway because the test putties didn't come close to blending in and were much too dark. The ones with the most glue stayed rubbery even after cooling to room temp.

I'm trying to patch a gouge in red oak because replacing the section is not an option. The test putties were darker than the stained wood, so I figured that either my proportions are 'way off, or I should be using a lighter color of sawdust--white oak, perhaps?

Sorry for my annoying post. Insecurity leads me to do exhaustive research and ask lots of questions before attempting an unfamiliar technique, but I also realize that asking unnecessary questions (and this was not my first) is an imposition. I do appreciate the time people spend responding.

Janet

Good Question (post #168331, reply #3 of 6)

by DonStephan in reply to jyang949 [original] on Fri, 07/22/2011 - 16:50

Janet:

Having never tried this I can't offer experience, but I am as perplexed as you - I've often seen this suggested with no hint there would not be a pretty good match. Ideally hide glue gets 24 hours to dry - cooling to room temp simply causes the glue to gel. As mentioned, much more time is needed for water to leave and the glue harden. Another species of wood may not look nearly as similar after finishing. Although more work than the hide glue putty approach, would it be possible to cover the gouge with a small dutchman using scrap from the board? A diamond shape may blend the grain patterns together better than a square or rectangular shape.

You're right--it needed more (post #168331, reply #5 of 6)

by jyang949 in reply to DonStephan [original] on Mon, 08/01/2011 - 07:11

You're right--it needed more time. For a while there, it was like those rubbery shoe soles from the 1970s. Now the patch is harder than the wood. It looks more like resin than wood, so I'll use more sawdust.

I hope to avoid using a dutchman--not because of the effort, but because I am reluctant to enlarge the existing void without having more experience at blending grain patterns.

Janet

Dutchman (post #168331, reply #4 of 6)

by roc in reply to jyang949 [original] on Fri, 07/22/2011 - 21:16

Hello Janet,

That was what I too thought after reading your responce. I looked for footage of Norm Abrams cutting a dutchman and did not find any. I think the ones where he works with cypress or especially recycled/reused lumber from buildings that were dismantled have demos of the dutchman.

Again the wood needs to be from the same plank to get a good match. Part of the reason this putty thing is iffy is there will be no grain.

To use the hide glue and saw dust as a filler you could do many layers that way it would dry faster in the end.

Norm recommends getting an "inlay kit" for your router. He says they are widely available from the usual suspects. Amazon has them...

I don't have one or use one but have watched him use one on many episodes.

Basically you could cut a patch out of some veneer that you make from the scrap from your plank. Resaw it by hand or on the bandsaw about an eighth inch or less thick.

Put the patch on the surface sticking it down with a layer of double sided tape between the patch and the work.

Scribe around it with a marking knife lightly but clearly.

Remove the patch

Remove wood inside the scribe line to a depth less than the thickness of your patch. A hand plane router is great for this and quieter than a power router

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?s...

Glue the patch in place.

When dry plane the patch flush using a regular bench hand plane.

Best fit is if you can lay everything out and cut your patch so the boundary lines are beveled so they kind of overlap and blend and are less of a hard line. To make sense of that see inlay and marquetry info.

Thank you for working hard to learn all you could before coming here. I am kind of surprised that the texts that you looked into did not discourage this putty thing.

Mostly the filler putty made with saw dust would help fill grain for a glass like finish but would be useless for filling a gouge covered with a clear finish. ORRRRR . . . the pasty stuff one gets in the container at the hardware store is for filling gouges like you have BUT then painting over it with an opaque paint. You still have to apply several layers because most of that junk shrinks and doesn't dry well when applied in one thick pile. The saw dust and hide glue would be the home made version of that.

Keep on woodworking and don't take my grumpiness too seriously.

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

I don't have any more of the (post #168331, reply #6 of 6)

by jyang949 in reply to roc [original] on Mon, 08/01/2011 - 07:30

I don't have any more of the original wood. The void is in the flooring that was installed in 1932. It is mostly hidden under baseboard molding.

I tried making patches from both new lumber and purchased veneer, but it stuck out like a sore thumb, both in color (even after staining) and lack of grain continuity. I decided on hide glue putty after reading Chris Minick's article (http://www.finewoodworking.com/FWNPDF/01...). He mentioned epoxy products, but I got the impression that hide glue and sawdust would give a better match after staining.

Janet

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