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Unisaw switch - what the ???
Unisaw switch - what the ??? (post #101906)
forestgirl on Mon, 05/19/2008 - 05:27
OK, this simply isn't kosher. Apparently, the cabinet-/furnituremaker I got my Unisaw from wired it "hot" -- the switch is there, but doesn't turn the saw off. I vaguely remember there was a wall-switch that we turned on when he was showing me the saw, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together at the time to realize that the saw was permanently "on."
This is gonna cost me, as there's no way I'll figure it out what they did or how to change it. Is this a common "liberty" to take with a saw???
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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(post #101906, reply #1 of 48)
I'm not sure what this guy did but I would not feel safe without a magnetic starter switch! That's what came on my Unisaw and is what is used on almost all 220 volt machines. The magnetic starter is a positive on/off switch that has safety features. One of the main advantages is that if there is a power interruption, blown circuit breaker or power failure from the grid line, the saw will not start up again when the power is restored. Once the magnetic contacts are opened the switch requires a manual push of the power on button to restart the motor.
I'm not an electrical expert but I am sure that any electrical supply house can put you on the right track of the proper magnetic starter. Delta will also have the proper starter if you wish to go with OEM parts. Yeah, I know there are rumors of poor service from Delta these days. It probably would be a good thing to call that electrician that you had install the 220 volt circuits in your shop awhile back and have him do the install. A single pole wall switch will only cut one side of the 220 volt line and with the amperage most Unisaws will draw on start-up I can't imagine the switch would last long either.
Be safe, do it the right way.
Bruce
(post #101906, reply #2 of 48)
Bruce, it has the nice Delta magnetic switch (good news), but the switch is not wired properly -- I'm sure he rewired it to just let the juice flow at all times. I was quite pleased to finally have a magnetic starter with a "knee bump" off ability. Little did I know, hah hah.
I'm going out in a few minutes to make sure I didn't do something stupid that caused this, like put the cover on upsidedown.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #3 of 48)
If the switch is there, it should be simple enough to rewire it correctly (assuming it hasn't been physically damaged).
-Steve
(post #101906, reply #4 of 48)
Simple for you, maybe, but not for me. I'm just curious whether others have run into this, or have wired their saws hot like this. Seems weird.
I have a Knots friend who's offered to help, but that would be long-distance, not sure I want to take the risk I'd not get it right. Replacing the cord to the wall, that looked simple, but the wiring diagram means absolutely nothing to me, I wouldn't begin to know how to get it wired properly.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #5 of 48)
Simple in an absolute sense, opposed to, say, general relativity or quantum mechanics.
-Steve
(post #101906, reply #14 of 48)
thank you, I feel better......physics was not my best college subject.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #19 of 48)
Hey FG, Why don't you take a photo or two, and post them. There is quite a bit of collective knowledge here, and maybe the problem is obvious enough to spot just from photos.
(post #101906, reply #21 of 48)
I just might do that tonight! I do get a bit nervous about getting wiring advice over the internet, but I have a quality control expert who will be watching......
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #22 of 48)
Just a little bit of information to guide you.
The buttons get their power from the top couple of screws. This will be the small wires, and the screws where they connect will have numbers by them. It would be good to try to show them in the photos.
Even a good shot of the wiring diagram in the cover might be helpful, although that can be gotten online if it is not something obvious.
This is an older saw isn't it?
(post #101906, reply #24 of 48)
We're just about to get dinner going here, but when I get done I'll take the pictures and upload them. The saw is about 1997.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #27 of 48)
Pics are up!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #7 of 48)
41864.5 in reply to 41864.4
Simple for you, maybe, but not for me. I'm just curious whether others have run into this, or have wired their saws hot like this. Seems weird.
As johndl said it is not too smart to wire any tool to a wall switch and or not use the magnetic switch as intended .
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Edited 5/19/2008 10:33 am ET by JerryPacMan
Edited 5/19/2008 4:02 pm ET by JerryPacMan
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
(post #101906, reply #12 of 48)
Whoa! This is not the guy who cut off fingers -- that was the "2nd Unisaw" guy. Don't want to start any false rumors here, LOL!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #8 of 48)
I wouldn't imagine that the cover could go on upside down. The green button is on the top and the red on the bottom. Having the magnetic switch is great, now to get it wired correctly. I am in Ohio, so I can't be of much physical help, and it sounds like there is at least one Knothead close. Hope he can get you hooked up right.
As the other poster said, Dumber than a rock, to hook 220 up this way. I think considering this that I would give the rest of the saw a once over to make sure everything is OK.
I do love my Unisaw, and I think you will like yours once everything is checked out and set up right. I know you are wishing for a Saw Stop in the future, but the Unisaw is a tough saw. Locally a company called WoodWerks is the sole distributor currently for custom versions of the Powermatic 2000. You can get any color paint, a blanchard ground top, several extension table options including butcher block and blanchard ground cast iron and even your name cast into a plate. I have been looking at the sample and some of the custom jobs awaiting pickup and they are fantastic. But, so far, I will stick with my Unisaw, it's only 3 years old anyway.
Bruce
(post #101906, reply #6 of 48)
Forestgirl,
Where are you at?
I'm in Renton, and if you're not too far away I can come over and take a look at switch/contactor and re-wire it properly for you.
Or you can remove the control and bring it over here, remove cover and disconnect line in and line out and pull the cords out of the box connectors. Should be a three wire cord on each end, two hot leads connected to the contactor terminals and a ground lead connected to the box.
I can't imagine why anyone would bypass the motor on-off control at the machine in favor of a remote, wall mounted switch. Dumber than a bag of rocks comes to mind.
(post #101906, reply #15 of 48)
Thanks, John, I'm all the way over on Bainbridge Island, so unless we decide to go to one of the MBA auctions soon, Renton's a bit of a stretch. There are a couple people around here who could probably do the job without challenging the retirement funds. If not, I'll be back to you!!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #28 of 48)
Hi, John. Pics are up and Len's standing by on the phone, LOL. If we can't solve it in the next two days, I'll talk hubby into going to Larry's auction, downtown Renton, Thursday night if you're up for a visit beforehand. thanks!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #9 of 48)
My guess is that the magnetic switch failed. They tend to fail open, rather than closed. The guy didn't want to buy a new one, so he wired past it, and used the wall switch to operate the machine.
A friend of mine recently replaced the magnetic switch on his Unisaw. He said it cost him close to $200 to get it from Delta. You might consider aftermarket magnetic switches from Griz and the like. They're more in the $75 range.
(post #101906, reply #16 of 48)
Hey, Jamie, that's a possibility I didn't think of. May make it more important than before to have an electrician look at it. In the meantime (if I have to order a switch) I'll have to dream up a way of hooking up a knee paddle to the wall switch that's 10 feet away, on the wall on the other side of the saw, ROFL!!!
Hmmmmm, a "head paddle" hanging just above the saw table, infeed side, bang it with my forehead if something's amiss.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #17 of 48)
Chuckling to myself here. By mentioning your head. The TV commercial with the old lady sitting on her bed popped to mind.. Clap on Clap off.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
(post #101906, reply #18 of 48)
Hi FG,
The magnetic switch on my unisaw, from time to time gets sawdust in the contacts, and refuses to work. An electric motor repair shop may be able to make yours go again if that's all that's wrong with it. Worth a try anyway.
Ray
(post #101906, reply #20 of 48)
I was amazed at how clean that switch was inside. Just the tiiiiiniest bit of sawdust right on the edge. It's realllly sealed. I pulled some pretty stubborn stuff out of the saw cabinet, though.
I might take up the offer from Renton. MBA has an auction Thursday night. If I can get hubby to leave the credit card at home, we could go early, take the switch by for some help, and then rub elbows with all our old auction buddies.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #34 of 48)
Forest ...just funnin ya!
I might take up the offer from Renton. MBA has an auction Thursday night. If I can get hubby to leave the credit card at home
I have done it so... I THINK I know.. What is more expensive? Horse upkeep or TOOLS! I'd say the horses are more expensive!!! ! Give the hubby a break!
Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!
(post #101906, reply #10 of 48)
FG ,
I'm with Jamie Buxton on this one , my hunch is the switch or part of it has failed , so instead of plugging and un plugging the machine each time he had it wired to a wall switch .
should be a matter of removing and replacing
dusty
(post #101906, reply #11 of 48)
Holy doodle! That has got to be one of the most stupid things I have ever heard of. I would be sorely tempted to insist he fix it. Or have an electrician fix it and send him the bill along with a summons to small claims court for the cost.
Peter(shaking his head in disgust)
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
(post #101906, reply #13 of 48)
He's gone to San Diego. I don't hold it against him that strongly, I probably should have figured it out when I was running the saw in the shop. He's a very nice guy, going down to take care of health-challenged elderly parents.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #23 of 48)
Does it look like this?
If it does then it looks like this inside.
If it is or something like it. It isn't hard to figure out.
Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
(post #101906, reply #25 of 48)
It's similar to that, Len, but probably older. Nick and I are doin' dinner here soon, then I'll take some pics. I have one humble, sincere request: Please don't tell me it's "easy." The only time electricity is easy for me is when I have a model sitting in front of me, and I'm wiring the exact same thing the exact same way.
I guess what will need to be done is (a) make sure it's wired properly and if it is (b) determine why it isn't running right (or is running all the time, rather).
Thanks, later, gotta feed the crew. Nick's easy to put off, but Cody's big brown eyes are hard to avoid.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #26 of 48)
OK, pics (more than you need, maybe) and verbage from the instructions inside the switch cover. First the pics: Far shot, the basic guts inside, a couple of close-ups, and the wirinig diagram:
Here's the verbage to go with the following pictures: For single phase motors, line connections are made at L1 and L3, Motor connections are made at T1 and T3 on overload relay. Note: I don't see any information about those small-gauge red wires. I can get a better shot of them if need be.
OK, fire away, what else is needed documentation-wise?? Thanks!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
(post #101906, reply #30 of 48)
Jamie,
It appears one of the red wires goes from L1 to 96? If I'm seeing that correctly then that connection is bypasssing the switch. Where is the other red wire hooked to? I can't make it out from your picture.
I've looked at the pictures again and it appears he wired the coil on all the time with the red wires.
Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
Edited 5/20/2008 12:56 am by Len