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3-way miter joint help

kayaks's picture

3-way miter joint help (post #106665)

in

I need to make a 3-way miter joint like in a Parsons Table. Does anyone know how to make it or where I can find directions or a diagram? I am an experienced woodworker with a well-equiped shop, and I need this joint to be strong. I am using solid cherry for all the parts. Thanks for any help that I can get.

roc's picture

(post #106665, reply #1 of 22)

I could not find the article on line here. I pulled this out of my file drawer:

Demystifying a complex Chinese Joint by Randolph Demercado

it is in Fine WoodWorking issue Sept/Oct 1998 pages 108 to 112 I have not performed this particular feet of magic so you are on your own. You may need to buy the DVD of all the magazines $150 to read it. Or perhaps can purchase back issue.

See also the book Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking volume one p 202 ISBN 1-56158-068-6 (this is both volumes one and two) (I think there is a third vol out now with a dvd if you are interested) Again I am scared but go for it and tell us/show us how you faired.

Edited 10/7/2008 2:12 am by roc


Edited 10/7/2008 2:18 am by roc

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

roc's picture

(post #106665, reply #2 of 22)

Can someone tell us how to search for a particular issue of FWW using the issue # etc. so we can read the smaller articles. I can bring it up in the purchase back issues but the contents is not live.

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

kayaks's picture

(post #106665, reply #5 of 22)

roc,


Thanks too. I have the article and I'll let you know how it turns out.


Joh Wagner

douglas2cats's picture

(post #106665, reply #7 of 22)

Roc
Was that Demercado article in issue #132 ? The title sounds real familiar but I cant access the mag for the month/year at the moment. I only have the issue number from a thread on another WW forum.


If that's the one, I built 3 end tables using that and the article did a good enough job explaining the steps that even I could follow it. Though by table #3 I ditched the small stub tenon and mortise at the back because it was prone to short grain breakage during dry fits as I was tuning the joinery. So I just couldn't figure how it was providing much strength and left it out of #3. That was by far the hardest part of the joint anyway. Dismiss my ramblings if this isn't the one.


If you build it he will come.

If you build it he will come.

douglas2cats's picture

(post #106665, reply #8 of 22)

Oops - meant to include a pic


 


If you build it he will come.

If you build it he will come.

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WillGeorge's picture

(post #106665, reply #16 of 22)

 


Edited 10/10/2008 2:35 pm by WillGeorge

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!

douglas2cats's picture

(post #106665, reply #17 of 22)

Can I get a secret decoder ring with that reply?? :-)

If you build it he will come.

If you build it he will come.

roc's picture

(post #106665, reply #19 of 22)

>secret decoder

Oh thats a cinch. It is invisible ink. Just rub lemon juice all over your computer screen then hold it over an open flame to reveal the secret message : )

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

Postman1's picture

(post #106665, reply #21 of 22)

Marc Adams at the Marc Adams Woodworking school teaches how to make this joint in his hand joinery class using floating tennons.   A miter saw is also used.  If the saw is accurate it is not all that complicated.

roc's picture

(post #106665, reply #10 of 22)

douglas2cats,

>issue #132 ?
Yes you are correct. I was able to pull that mag using your # and the pages were missing. ('cause I tor'em out for my wood work files)

>ditched the small stub tenon
good to know. I'll make a note in case I get brave enough to try making this joint.

>Pic
Oooohh Yaaahhh ! ! ! that is one gorgeous table ! ! !
What is the blue area made of ? Looks like a material from another planet.

Edited 10/8/2008 9:27 pm by roc


Edited 10/8/2008 9:30 pm by roc

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

douglas2cats's picture

(post #106665, reply #11 of 22)

Roc
It only looks somewhat blue due to my poor photo skills. It's a black/grey Corian (actually Wilsonart's solid surface) that I picked up rather than trying to use real slate.

If you build it he will come.

If you build it he will come.

roc's picture

(post #106665, reply #13 of 22)

>photo skills,
Yah tell me about it. I never paid much attention to photography. I have more hobbies than I can afford now. Until I got my iPhone. Now I have a camera with me all the time and find the pics I print out could be improved. Looks perfect on computer screen but printed out there are issues.

But I don't have time or money for more hobbies ! . . so 'not gonna do it'.

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

MBerger's picture

(post #106665, reply #3 of 22)

I edited an article for FW issue #169 that details a simplified method for making this joint. It uses floating tenons.


Here's the link if you  have an online membership: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2905


Matt Berger
Fine Woodworking

kayaks's picture

(post #106665, reply #4 of 22)

Matt,


Thanks for the info. I have that issue and found the article. It is exactly what I needed.Thaks again.


John Wagner

WillGeorge's picture

(post #106665, reply #6 of 22)

May not be simple but here is one link.. I'll look for others.


http://www.rochesterwoodworkers.org/Gallery/Rinehart%20Chuck/chuckrinehart3.htm


Click the picture!


I have made a few like these,,, BUT NOT as nice looking on the inside as the above picture shows. Outside was nice and still holding strong thanks to modern glues.!


or maybe if you have Wood Magazine issue May 2007.. It is free...


http://www.woodstore.net/thmijo.html


About $3.00 for the download?


Short description


http://sandal-woodsblog.com/2007/11/21/three-way-miters-2/


Edited 10/7/2008 9:10 pm by WillGeorge


Edited 10/7/2008 9:15 pm by WillGeorge

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!

kayaks's picture

(post #106665, reply #9 of 22)

Thanks. I can get the magazine at the library and I already have the FWW isssue, so between the 2 i should be al set!


John Wagner

PCM's picture

(post #106665, reply #12 of 22)

Yeung Chan, in his book "Classic Joints With Power Tools", ppg 134 &5 describes this joint, with a small stub tenon. He modified it to incorporate floating tenons, and says the most important concern is that all pieces are same width and thickness, and perfectly square. Says all cuts are done on table saw, except the loose tenon slots.


Send pics of "in progress" and finished.


Pete

woodworkerpro's picture

I agree! The most difficult (post #106665, reply #22 of 22)

I agree! The most difficult part of making ancient Chinese furnitures besides the accuracy of wood cutting inside the joinery, there must not be any space, otherwise it will be the home of insects and it won't last long. The ancient Chinese furnitures involve precise measurement structure, fungshui, art and design, hard wood studying. I believe the most difficult part to study it is the orignal books were written in ancient Chinese, not every normal Chinese can read and understand 100%.


I saw one good reference site to understand more in English at: http://humblehouse.com.au/plone/rare-fur...


tony

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chscholz's picture

(post #106665, reply #14 of 22)

This type of joinery was knocked out by Chinese woodworkers since at least 600 AD. The originals were made without glue, some collectors claim that the joinery gets tighter over time.

Recently quite a few furniture stores started carrying various types of Chinese antique Ming-style furniture. In my assessment most of the pieces are antiqued recent production probably made by some village carpenters. Finish is ugly but the joinery tends to by fairly authentic. How about picking up a so called antique small footstool (about $50 to $100) and re-engineering the joinery?


Here's how the typical Chinese tripple miter is done:






Photograph of a high-end museums piece made of huali (type of rosewood)







Chris


---

Chris Scholz

Dallas/Fort Worth, TX

Galoot-Tools


Chris Scholz
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
Galoot-Tools

WillGeorge's picture

(post #106665, reply #15 of 22)

If you like old Chinese joints.


Get a copy of Chinese Domestic Furniture by Gustav Ecke. Dover Press? Doverpress.com as I recall. It will not show you how-to but has illustrations of common joinery used. Good read/look even if you never make one of the joints.

Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!

chscholz's picture

(post #106665, reply #18 of 22)

Thanks Will George,



I've got Ecke's book (and a few more).


Up until very recently the Chinese did not consider furniture as a form of art (with the fortunate side effect that many pieces made it relatively intact through the Cultural Revolution and other political insanities).


Prof. Ecke (together with a small group of co-workers) was one of the first to understand and documented the value of Chinese joinery. I had the distinct pleasure to see a few pieces remaining pieces from his collection at the Honolulu Academy of Art.

You don't see that kind of furniture in the US too often. The photograph in my previous post is a closeup of a daybed from from a private Taiwanese collector that was on exhibit at the Trammell and Margaret Crow Collection of Asian Art in Dallas last month.



Here's a closeup of a Chinese rosewood chair produced in a modern production environment.



Chris

---

Chris Scholz

Dallas/Fort Worth, TX

Galoot-Tools


Edited 10/10/2008 10:05 pm by chscholz


Chris Scholz
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
Galoot-Tools

shadowfax51's picture

(post #106665, reply #20 of 22)

try 'woodwork joints' by charles hayward-he calls it a three way showcase joint and it's shown in several variations.