NEW! Faster Search Option
trouble handplaning hard wood
trouble handplaning hard wood (post #169320)
i'm using a #4 smoother to plane some curly maple i want to use as an electric guitar top. i'm making my blade adjustments on a piece of 2x4 (pine) and it's shaving great. nice pretty curls, not to thick, just working perfect, that is until i move to the maple. i can't even get the blade to make contact to the wood. on the off chance i do, i'm getting super think chunks that stop the plane dead in it's tracks. the blades good and sharp, the mouth opening is about 1/32". same with the blade distance from the chip breaker. i've done everything except bouncing the thing off the ground (which I'm not to far from doing). just don't get it.
on a side note, i have a #6 that i can't get to contact head and heel at the same time. it rocks at the blade. the only thing i can think that's causing the problem is my blade angle, ground at 45 degress.



OK this is not a difficult (post #169320, reply #1 of 18)
OK this is not a difficult problem to fix, but bouncing the smoother off the floor probably won't help lol.
First of all, make sure everything on the plane is tight, contacting nicely, and have a freshly sharpened blade - the frog screw should be just tight enough to hold the blade securely, DO NOT over-tighten.
From the picture you gave its a little hard to tell but the pine shavings pictured are still pretty thick for a smoothing plane IMO. I set my #4 tight for final finish - I can easily see through my shavings and they feel more like fleece or a cotton like material than wood or paper. 1/32 is a pretty tight mouth opening, probably a good distance in this case, and that makes much more of a difference on hardwoods (esp. highly figured ones) than softwoods like pine. On really gnarly grain a tighter mouth can help facilitate the formation of chip and by extention, shaving. Don't be afraid to experiment with settings in different woods to get familiar with the tool.
As long as you have good chip clearance around the mouth, and SLOWLY advance the blade until you just start to pick up a shaving, you should be able to adjust the blade to get a nice shaving right in the middle. Its important to set your smother up on a board that is already flat so you can dial it in without worrying about riding the irregularities in the piece.
The smoother is the most touchy tool in the shop as far as I'm concerned, but I think if you take much lighter cuts and skew the plane you will see a big improvement.
About the #6 - does it rock even with the blade installed but retracted into the body? Have you lapped the sole with the blade installed in the same manner?
-Ian
Not ready for the smoother... (post #169320, reply #2 of 18)
In my opinion, if I was to take a #4 to a board and it very infrequently made contact w/ the wood, but when it did it dug in so much that it stopped the plane dead in its tracks, I would think that the board is definitely not flat enough for the smoother. A smoother is a short plane, so it should follow hills and valleys pretty well -- if it doesn't, then the board must not be that flat.
You could take your smoother and set it so the blade is just BARELY visible when sighting down the sole, and start running it acros the board taking down the high spots and slowly advancing. This is how I personally set my depth -- under a light, sight down the bottom of the sole, and starting with the blade fully retracted, slowly advance it until you just barely start to see it. Make sure it's not skewed to one side or another; adjust accordingly. Take it and start running it across the board. If you're not getting anything at all (you should, if your board is somewhat flat and your plane sole is flat) then something's up.
I personally (not saying it's wrong) wouldn't tune my plane in on pine (I'm envisioning a piece of 2x4 white pine from Home Depot) because you could easily PRESS into that wood enough to flatten it out and compress the fibers enough to get a good shaving. You won't get the same results from a nice hard wood like curly maple. If you want to tune your plane in that way, and I see the value in doing that on another board that's not your "good" piece, I would at least use a piece of scrap of the same wood.
If it were me, I would take out my bevel up jointer with my high angle blade, great combination in figured wood, and knock down those high spots until I am getting a full length shaving. I would set it to take really fine shavings w/ a tight mouth. I really get a nice surface from my jointer like this, so I would probably then just go straight to a card scraper (esp. in that wood) and concentrate on anything that needed attention. I realize you might not have a bevel up jointer or a card scraper, just sayin' that's what I would do. I would highly recommend a card scraper on that wood -- even the Lie Nielsen ones are inexpensive.
Hope there is some help in there somewhere.
Hard to tell from the (post #169320, reply #3 of 18)
Hard to tell from the picture, but it might be that you are planing the wrong way on that grain. Kind of looks like the iron is diving into the wood. Try planing from the other direction and see if that helps at all.
I do a lot of curly maple. I (post #169320, reply #4 of 18)
I do a lot of curly maple. I have a lot of really nice, really sharp hand planes, and I use them a lot - just not on curly maple.
So what to do? When I want my project completed in the year I started it, I dampen the target surface of my curly maple with a spray bottle and promptly feed it through my 13" portable planer with new, sharp blades until it is the flat thickness that I want for the project at hand. No tearout. Looks nice. Doesn't warp. Is immediately ready for SANDING.
Then I SAND the surface with progressively finer grits starting with 120 and ending up with 320 grit. This is the non zen, practical approach for building with curly maple. Fight it if you must, but in the hour of your dispair, remember what I told you. SAND curly maple!
Yes, if you MASTER the handplane (this includes sharpening beyond the atomic level) and don't mind having a big hunk of tearout appear in an unrepairable spot with your last stroke of the smoothing plane - do punish yourself with a hand plane.
However, if you've no major sins to atone for, and you want to finish you project before you are an old person - sand curly maple.
Mike makes a good point. For (post #169320, reply #5 of 18)
Mike makes a good point. For curly maple every thing has to be right. I've one plane that works reliably and well for curly maple, my Clark and Williams York pitch smoother. It has a really tight mouth considerably less than .01 (I don't think I could get a folded dollar bill through the opening. ) That means shavings must be really thin, something like .001" which will only be lace. The York pitch (55 degree) helps as does the fully bedded and the very thick single iron does too. I sharpen obsessively, bringing out the translucent hard Arkansas, when work like curly harp maple beckons.
You will also notice on 18th century hard maple pieces that haven't been refinished a finger tip will reveal the curl, indicating even masters from that period didn't always achieve, or likely even aim for, the machine like precision we often seek.
Test your finish on scrap, FIRST, or risk having to scrap your finish.
At Lie Nielsen's suggestion (post #169320, reply #6 of 18)
At Lie Nielsen's suggestion I've been using poplar to set up my hand planes with great success. I use a small strip perhaps 2" x 3/4" x 3/4". With the plane vertical on the bench I simply pull the strip past both edges of the blade and compare the thickness of the two shavings, or you can put the poplar strip against a bench stop and push the plane across it, again using the two edges.
drive, Couple things. You (post #169320, reply #7 of 18)
drive,
Couple things. You can easily push a plane thru pine taking a shaving that will dog you down in a harder wood like maple. As others have suggested, to successfully plane curly maple, everything must be just so. Very sharp blade, set very fine. You might try planing across the width of the boards. Without a perfect set-up, (high bed angle, closed mouth, sharp, set fine) curly maple will tear out or dig in due to the nature of the ripply grain. Planing cross grain will sometimes mitigate this problem.
Finally, you mention that the blade is ground at 45 degrees. If this is in a common-pitch, bevel down plane, you have no clearance behind the bevel. That's a non-starter right there. Plane irons are normally ground somewhere around 30 degrees.
Ray
drive, Couple things. You (post #169320, reply #8 of 18)
drive,
Couple things. You can easily push a plane thru pine taking a shaving that will dog you down in a harder wood like maple. As others have suggested, to successfully plane curly maple, everything must be just so. Very sharp blade, set very fine. You might try planing across the width of the boards. Without a perfect set-up, (high bed angle, closed mouth, sharp, set fine) curly maple will tear out or dig in due to the nature of the ripply grain. Planing cross grain will sometimes mitigate this problem.
Finally, you mention that the blade is ground at 45 degrees. If this is in a common-pitch, bevel down plane, you have no clearance behind the bevel. That's a non-starter right there. Plane irons are normally ground somewhere around 30 degrees.
Ray
drive, Couple things. You (post #169320, reply #9 of 18)
drive,
Couple things. You can easily push a plane thru pine taking a shaving that will dog you down in a harder wood like maple. As others have suggested, to successfully plane curly maple, everything must be just so. Very sharp blade, set very fine. You might try planing across the width of the boards. Without a perfect set-up, (high bed angle, closed mouth, sharp, set fine) curly maple will tear out or dig in due to the nature of the ripply grain. Planing cross grain will sometimes mitigate this problem.
Finally, you mention that the blade is ground at 45 degrees. If this is in a common-pitch, bevel down plane, you have no clearance behind the bevel. That's a non-starter right there. Plane irons are normally ground somewhere around 30 degrees.
Ray
drive, Couple things. You (post #169320, reply #10 of 18)
drive,
Couple things. You can easily push a plane thru pine taking a shaving that will dog you down in a harder wood like maple. As others have suggested, to successfully plane curly maple, everything must be just so. Very sharp blade, set very fine. You might try planing across the width of the boards. Without a perfect set-up, (high bed angle, closed mouth, sharp, set fine) curly maple will tear out or dig in due to the nature of the ripply grain. Planing cross grain will sometimes mitigate this problem.
Finally, you mention that the blade is ground at 45 degrees. If this is in a common-pitch, bevel down plane, you have no clearance behind the bevel. That's a non-starter right there. Plane irons are normally ground somewhere around 30 degrees.
Ray
All, Sorry for the multiple (post #169320, reply #11 of 18)
All,
Sorry for the multiple posts, something locked up, and I wasn't getting thru. Than all he11 broke loose!
Ray
multiple posts (post #169320, reply #12 of 18)
Wow . . . I guess . . . ha ha ha.
When that happens to me I go in and just select all and put a " . " or some such in place of the text in the Subject and one in the Comment to minimize the mess. In the old days one could ask the moderator to remove them but I have not had one of my many screw ups removed by asking in like a year or so.
It's all part of the fun that is Knots.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
. (post #169320, reply #13 of 18)
.
( like that see )
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
roc, As slow as this site (post #169320, reply #14 of 18)
roc,
As slow as this site has become, that would have taken me an hour to do. sorry, y'all are not worth it. haha,
Ray
P-p-p-posting (post #169320, reply #15 of 18)
I read each of the posts, Ray, and I'm considerig disagreeing with the second one. ;-)
Ralph, I think I was really (post #169320, reply #16 of 18)
Ralph,
I think I was really hitting my stride by post # 4.
I think I was really hitting my stride by post # 4.
I think I was really hitting my stride by post # 4.
I think I was really hitting my stride by post # 4.
etc,
Ray
Yep (post #169320, reply #17 of 18)
You were, indeed.
My experience... (post #169320, reply #18 of 18)
A few years ago I bought a piece of figured maple and was fascinated by the beauty of it. I made a piece for a dear friend and to this day he just raves about it. I used seven different woods in it and the figured maple was the star. And that's how my love affair began with figured maple.
It was then I realized I needed some good tools if I wanted to work with this wood. So I made a substantial investment in L-N planes. I had no idea I was working in the stone age all those years.
But the maple was still tough to work.
So I made another investment by upgrading my sharpening tools. I got those L-N blades shining like mirrors. If there was any hair on my arms, they would have jumped off (thanks Mike for that one!)
But the maple was still tough to work.
A few weeks ago, while browsing through my local hardwood store, I saw a nice selection of quilted maple. WOW! I bought the primo pieces and took them home. Yes, I made my planing life even harder.
I told my boss many years ago, "I work very hard to make my job easy." He looked at me quizzically. Then he realized what I was saying. I try to do the same with woodworking. So I've been sanding highly figured woods. That doesn't stop me from going back and trying to plane or scrape the wood. But I keep finding myself back with sandpaper in hand and eventually a smile on my face.