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eoinsgaff's picture

Tool protection (post #104640)

Hey all,


I live in a pretty harsh climate for handtools. The air is very humid and salty and therefore steel tools react very quickly.


What is a good product or material to protect my tools and that will not leave a residue on the wood that will affect the finish?


I know Lie Nielsen recommends camilla oil but, outside of directly from LN it is very hard to find. Will some type of wax do and if so what kind? Again, will if affect the finish of my wood?


Thanking you all in advance


Eoin

Tony Z's picture

(post #104640, reply #1 of 39)

I believe Highland Hardware and Japan Woodworker also offer Camilla oil.  I have tried it, and I have a plane wick filled with it, that I use occassionally.  My best luck is just a can of Johnson's paste wax, that I use pretty regularly on planes and saws.  There is nothing (such as silicone) in the paste wax to hurt finishing and I have not had any issues with rusting in my shop, in spite of modest temperature swings and minor humidity swings. 


T.Z.

BruceS's picture

(post #104640, reply #2 of 39)

Personally,  I use T9 Boeshield as per can,  and then paste wax over that.  Either Johnsons or Butchers bowling ally wax.

Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!


Bruce S. 


 

Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

Bruce S. 

 

pzaxtl's picture

(post #104640, reply #13 of 39)

Personally,  I use T9 Boeshield as per can,  and then paste wax over that.  Either Johnsons or Butchers bowling ally wax.


That's what I do as well.  Typically, after cleaning the cast iron surfaces in my shop and treating with Boeshield then wax, I go at least a year before I have worry about rust.  My climate isn't salty, but it is humid in the summer, and I heat all winter with a portable kerosene and portable propane heater, both of which pump quite a bit of moisture in the air.

 

If you’re OCD and you know it wash your hands

TaunTonMacoute's picture

(post #104640, reply #3 of 39)

Are you putting the shop in mothballs for the winter season, or are you talking about tools you are still using frequently?

eoinsgaff's picture

(post #104640, reply #4 of 39)

It would be for tools I'd use reasonably frequently - two to three times a week.


Eoin

TaunTonMacoute's picture

(post #104640, reply #5 of 39)

Furniture wax, buffed well. Tool cabinets, chests, chisel rolls, etc. are also helpful vs. letting the tools sit out on open shelving.


Edited 1/26/2009 3:59 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

AdamCherubini's picture

(post #104640, reply #6 of 39)

I think the issue is keeping the tools clean and dry.  I don't think anything short of paint will prevent corrosion in your environment completely.  I would start with some form of storage solution first (like Charles said) like a tool chest.  You're not going to be able to leave tools sitting out. 


In terms of coatings, any coating that attracts or holds dust (including soft waxes (like auto polishes) or oils) will probably be more harm than good.  Dust is very highly hygroscopic (double word score!) and wood dust is even more so.


So I would advise you to make make some storage chest, add moth balls or "do not eats" or some other humidity collector to keep unused tools from getting dusty.


At the end of each day, wipe down your tools, cleaning planes' throats.  I think many guys do this with camilla oil and find success.  I think the wiping may be more responsible for the prevention of corrosion than the oil. 


If you want to use oil, other oils to consider include ATF dextron 3, which has surfactants added to make it penetrate , Mobil 1 motor oil, WD-40 (which is essentially kerosene and a bunch of other stuff) or a combination of these. Kerosene and ATF 50-50 is a commonly recommended tapping fluid that would work well on woodworking tools (or as a honing fluid).  Mobil 1 is an excellant rust inhibitor, but it will attract dust.


I think your problem is more similar to that encountered by machinists.  They oil everything, wiping down tools after use and store in felt lined drawers.  I think the felt, which is hygroscopic on it's own, becomes saturated with oil in time.  I would think an Oak chest, like the traditional Gerstners, would be detrimental, but what do I know.


I've had good luck storing tools in a wooden tool chest in an unheated building 200 yards from the Delaware river (which is "fresh" water).  I think putting tools away clean really helps.


Adam   

TaunTonMacoute's picture

(post #104640, reply #7 of 39)

Another alternative might be Bob Smalser's bluing technique with cold blue. I think he's a boatbuilder and at least some of his workspace is in an open shed close to water.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/z_media/bSmalser/Rust-ProofingTools-ne.pdf


Edited 1/26/2009 12:14 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

eoinsgaff's picture

(post #104640, reply #8 of 39)

Adam,

Thanks for that detailed reply. I never considered the saw dust to be a danger. It makes some sense now though.

One question though. Which oil would be the most practical? For example WD40 is a penetrating oil and I believe that its not beneficial to get onto ones hands. Plus, do any of them react with glues or finishes.

I'm reasonably new to woodworking so a nice tool chest might be a good project. I'm quite keen to do some coopering...

Eoin

AdamCherubini's picture

(post #104640, reply #9 of 39)

I think all of the oils I mentioned would have residues that may be unhealthy to handle or may interfere with one finish or another. As I said, I'd hesitate to apply ANY coatings and instead focus on storage and cleaning tools after use.

That said, my planes are wooden and I oil their soles with boiled linseed oil. Since I often apply BLO to my pieces anyway, I don't find that my planes are disturbing my finishes or glues (which I generally don't trust). So for me, none of this has been a problem. But I don't lacquer anything, don't spray on anything anywhere. I have no aersols. I keep wd-40 in a plastic squirt bottle.

adam

flairwoodworks's picture

(post #104640, reply #10 of 39)

I use Boeshield on all the machined surfaces in my shop and no rust so far. I am not too far away from the ocean, but am at an elevation above the fog (usually), so rust is not as big an issue as it is for others. I also use wax for a little extra slip. Watch out for silicone as an ingredient - that will mess up your finishes.

On coopering, have a look at pinch dogs. In my opinion, they are the best way to clamp at angles. You just need to leave the parts long to cut off the holes they leave.

Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)


 - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

Chris @ www.flairwoodworks.com
and http://flairwoodworks.wordpress.com

 - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

philip's picture

(post #104640, reply #11 of 39)

Since coming to New Zealand I have seen how pernicious rust can be -and fast acting too.
Since most of the products were foreign to me , apart from WD40 and one or two others such as G96, I experimented quite a lot.
Never seen the fabled Boeshield here.
I have settled on something that is very good for human skin, smells reasonable, is not hellish expensive, doesn't spoil the woodwork, acts as a machine table lubricant if required- and really works the best to prevent rust here in NZ.When you wipe it off a metallic surface it is as though you had waxed that surface.--------That magical substance is LANOLIN, extract of sheep. Various manufacturers make it , including CRC, so you should be able to get it in USA. Try it , and I bet you throw away a whole bunch of cans of other stuff. For the occasional wiping of metals I just have a rag which is loaded with it, and only use the spray can when it is necessary to apply a lot or reach some difficult area.

Philip Marcou

Philip Marcou
dgreen's picture

(post #104640, reply #12 of 39)

Come to think of it I have never seen a rusted up sheep. Montana woodworkers should use caution, the scent could draw a lot of unwanted suitors.

 


 


................................................


Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot

 

 

................................................

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot

philip's picture

(post #104640, reply #14 of 39)

But no cure for squeaking kiwis yet...

Philip Marcou

Philip Marcou
pcott's picture

(post #104640, reply #15 of 39)

I use Waxilit from Lee Valley and have been pretty happy with it.

boilerbay's picture

(post #104640, reply #20 of 39)

Philip,

I agree with the lanolin up to a point. A few years back I bought a very heavy ('bout a million pounds) cable knit fisherman's wool sweater in Donnegal and it was warm and almost waterproof. After a while, those sheep oil contributions began making friends sit a few stools down at the bar. After I had it cleaned the friends were back. That stuff, when old, does stink!
A thin coat does work though.

To all,
I have tried most over the years. Topcoat and Drycoat - so so. Paste wax is ok, Camilla oil is fine but goes bad like lanolin (it's just vegetable oil sold by the gallon in Asia for cooking), The Boeshield is, all in all a pain, to get off again. Yes for permanent storage though.
I have to agree with Adam and with Richard. Clean the tools well and then store in cabinet or drawer, preferably heated.

My own twist is usually a thin coat of Renaissance Wax on the plane soles but thats it. I have no rust and I work 800 feet from the Pacific Ocean. 80 to 100% humidity outside. Dry electric heat in the shop.
All in all, I think ongoing inspections and the use of anything will serve best. Even with the best protectants.

Hope this helps.

Boiler

joinerswork's picture

(post #104640, reply #21 of 39)

boiler,


Considering its origin, wouldn't you expect lanolin to go baad?


Ray

boilerbay's picture

(post #104640, reply #22 of 39)

Ray,

Very baad, Ray, very baad.

Boiler

joinerswork's picture

(post #104640, reply #23 of 39)

Bb,


I know it was baad.  I feel sheepish.  Do ewe?


Ray

boilerbay's picture

(post #104640, reply #24 of 39)

Ray,

I just think your trying to get my goat.

Which reminds me isn't that Lanolin stuff just about the same as that Land of Lakes stuff? I hear it's waterproof toooo. ( the unsalted kind)
Probably work well on the drill press column. Don't know about chisels though.

Shouldn't pick on Philip, he's right about the lanolin...as long as the tools are in the other room.

Boiler

boilerbay's picture

(post #104640, reply #25 of 39)

fadó, fadó, fadó, there was a lad with a iron tool.
(that's the best of my Gaelic so I will go back to english)

Another consideration for the protection of your tools and that where your at specifically, you'll need all the protection you can get. You're as close to the water as I am. You get almost the same rain, I do but you also get the cold off the Atlantic. Tool chest or drawers are definite. You might also consider rust proof paper for wrapping the tools. It's available close to you. Also look for it at some of the Frankfurt tool websites. If you lived in Utah where Chris Gochnour lives you could set them on a wall shelf and forget about them. Utah's humidity is almost like Idaho - nonexistent. But for most places, in a wall chest or tool chest is a must, if for no other reason than to keep the dust off. Also forget the peat fire in the shop - way to much water content. Good for Jamesons, lousy for tools.

But heh, like Philip, you've got your own fair amount of sheepies for the lanolin. Or there's always the Blackwater for Salmon oil...

I've played your courses there - Old Course and the Cashen Course. Those "out west" courses are a bit of a blast. When the westies blowin, ya need a driver or a 1 iron to putt with. :)
You also have great inspiration with the Ring. A beautiful country and your at one of the best places. To do fine woodworking there would be my second favorite place on the planet.

Boiler

eoinsgaff's picture

(post #104640, reply #28 of 39)

There really is no place like home. Unfortunatly I'm living and working in Limerick City at the minute so I don't get to appreciate the area. Plus my wood working time is unpredictable.


I'm designing my house at the minute and it will be on the hill/mountain over looking the town and golf courses. And I'm building a shop into it. Thats the dream anyhow.


I've a temporary shop in my current residence in Ballybunion which will have to do until the house is built. But as I live in Limerick during the week I don't see it so much so I'm considering a temporary-temporary shop here. Plus fine woodworking is not nearly as common/popular as it is else where so networking is difficult to say the least.


So for that reason it's nice to hear from someone who is familiar with my home town and is most likely sympathetic to my cries.


As for protecting my tools, Wax seems to be the most attractive at the moment as I really hate the idea of oil on my hands, and then on my handles and so on. I've invested a lot of time (and some money) on gathering a selection that will add to my comfort. Thats part of the turn off of the Lanolin. I love the smell of my timber and I really don't like the idea of whatever is to be feared from Montana (as dgreen points out) heavily breathing down my neck. 3000 miles and an Athlantic Ocean isn't enough to make me feel safe...

joinerswork's picture

(post #104640, reply #26 of 39)

bb,


Land-o-Lakes?  You mean you are bullish on butter as a waterproofer?  It might be a moot point.   I am cowed by your ability to steer this conversation at will, and milk the topic for all the information can be re-vealed...


Ray

boilerbay's picture

(post #104640, reply #30 of 39)

Ray,

Yes, it is interesting to discourse on the positive aspects of bovine cholesterol in metallurgy. When applied to the care and maintenance of tools it can have a fattening effect. When your plane blades are getting ever thinner or your draw knife chatters a bit much, a thin coat of well marbled beef steak or veal cutlet will significantly change the cutting characteristics. Perhaps even alter the bevel. I have noticed in some of the old etchings that workers after lunch appear to take the last of their burger sandwich and run it across their Solingens.
I have thought to experiment with a 7 blade roast and a chisel. Pre wipe - a 25 degree angle and post - 30 degree? Would make it easier to go from soft woods back to hard. Of course a wipe down with Lipitor or beer fed Kobe would reverse the process.
Which makes me wonder about wheat germ and castor.

boiler

philip's picture

(post #104640, reply #29 of 39)

"Shouldn't pick on Philip, he's right about the lanolin...as long as the tools are in the other room."
Buttt it doesn't go baaaad because it is not just pure squeezed sheep in a can- it is pre served . There aint no stinkin tools going baaad in my work shop.I even put it on my motorcycle jacket (;).
Seriously-has anyone tried CRC lanolin?

Philip Marcou

Philip Marcou
boilerbay's picture

(post #104640, reply #31 of 39)

Philip,

Is CRC the manufacturer and do you know if it's available in North America?
I'd give it a go and if it didn't work I could give it the neighborhood kids for a hair pomade :)

Boiler

dgreen's picture

(post #104640, reply #32 of 39)

Here's a little info.

 


 


................................................


Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot

 

 

................................................

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot

TaunTonMacoute's picture

(post #104640, reply #33 of 39)

If one can form a barrier between the metal and moisture and oxygen then rust is a physical impossibility.  Obviously, a problem arises when trying to do so with a tool as said coating is removed during use requiring a fairly frequent schedule of reapplication.


The answer is in how tools are stored at the end of the workday.

dgreen's picture

(post #104640, reply #34 of 39)

I know you love to pontificate on the obvious but is there some reason you are addressing this to me? There is no rust on my tools.

 


 


................................................


Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot

 

 

................................................

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot

TaunTonMacoute's picture

(post #104640, reply #35 of 39)

Not really, just trying to point out that the Boeshield and Sheep Sebum route is pretty much a fool's errand unless the shop is being shuttered for some reason.


Glad to see you're still "at-large."


Edited 1/30/2009 11:58 am ET by TaunTonMacoute