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Metod's picture

Rounded bevels (post #151311)

Check this ode

http://www.owdman.co.uk/howto/howto.htm

to free-hand sharpening.

Metod

RalphBarker's picture

much ado (post #151311, reply #19 of 36)

A lot of the methodology reminds me of "discussions" between leading photograpehrs during the first half o fthe 20th century. Members of this school argued for one method, while members of that school argued for something different, each school trying to prove their point, while either method might work just fine.If one is making their living by writing books that will eventually be considered classics, however, the motivation behind the argument becomes far more serious, but no more meaningful.

gdblake's picture

Number of rounded bevels on old edge tools (post #151311, reply #26 of 36)

To All:

While searching out old tools that are still serviceable I noticed early on that more of the old tools had rounded bevels than tools with an obvious hollow grind.  It has always been my assumption this was due to dished out oil stones and not some intentional honing technique.  However, given the volume of old irons out there with rounded bevels I am open to the possibility this was an intentional result of whatever sharpening process they used.   I watched the video on creating a rounded bevel and to me it looks like a hard way to grind an edge.  Too much room for error.  Not having seen your sharpening video Larry, I would love to know your approach.  

My own preference is to lightly hollow grind the center of the bevel and then freehand hone keeping both the cutting edge and the heel of the bevel in constant contact with the stone.  Once a wire edge is raised then it is back and forth between the bevel and the face until the tool has been worked on my finest stone (currently a Norton 8,000 grit waterstone).  This was the method I was taught in my first year of shop class.  I have tried other techniques, but none of them are as quick or work as well for me.    Consistent results with this method does depend on constantly flattening the sharpening stones however.

gdblake

We're all here because we're not all there.

jacob1066's picture

..........given the volume of (post #151311, reply #27 of 36)

..........given the volume of old irons out there with rounded bevels I am open to the possibility this was an intentional result of whatever sharpening process they used.   I watched the video on creating a rounded bevel and to me it looks like a hard way to grind an edge.  Too much room for error........

The point I keep making (perhaps not very well) is that a rounded bevel is not intentional or desirable in itself. It's just a by product of a fast easy freehand method. A flat bevel would be better (more material behind the edge) but takes more patience and concentration.

Hitting 30º freehand is not as difficult as they all say. You just need to start the hone at that angle and then dip as you go, to a lower one. They managed perfectly well without honing jigs.

You do it a little and often but without needing to go back to the grindstone ever. Honing a chisel or plane  becomes a simple little routine, like sharpening a pencil.



gdblake's picture

If it works for you that's all that matters (post #151311, reply #30 of 36)

Jacob:

In my sleep deprived state (I'm working midnight to 8 am and finding it difficult to sleep during the day) I realize that I made it appear that I was willing to believe that sharpeners of old were after a rounded bevel.  Not the case.  What I'm willing to entertain is that whatever the going sharpening method many used in the 18th C always resulted in a rounded bevel.  I still hold the belief this was due to dished out stones.

While I'm very interested in past woodworking techniques, I'm more interested in me being able to get my tools sharp quickly and consistently.  Having watched the video I don't think this method of sharpening is for me because I don't believe I could be that consistent with the rocking motion.  If it works for you great, I'm happy for you!  I agree that a flat bevel is the ideal and what I am after with how I sharpen.  I only lightly hollow grind when I find that I have dubbed a blade over (or just can't get it sharp) or the edge is damaged in some fashion.  The hollow grind makes it easier for me to hold the bevel flat to the stone.  Thin irons (which I have come to hate) go in the Mark II honing guide.

gdblake

We're all here because we're not all there.

jacob1066's picture

.... that sharpeners of old (post #151311, reply #33 of 36)

.... that sharpeners of old were after a rounded bevel. .....


Why would they want a rounded bevel? I don't particularly want a rounded bevel myself. It's just that if you do a fast and easy hone that is what you get - because it's easier than trying to maintain a flat bevel. Either way has no effect in the sharpness of the edge.

.... I don't believe I could be that consistent with the rocking motion.  ....

You don't have to be consistent, that's the whole point - it's a very lazy way of sharpening. All you need is to start the hone at the angle you choose (30º etc) but then you relax  at a shallower angle.

It's quite different from the obsessive perfectionism of the crazy sharpening fraternity! It's for woodworkers in a hurry.

I only lightly hollow grind when I find that I have dubbed a blade over

Why do you dub them over? I think you should stop doing this immediately!

  Thin irons (which I have come to hate) go in the Mark II honing guide.

That's a pity because thin irons are the most easy to sharpen freehand, which is why they were such a universal success when Bailey et al introduced them.

gdblake's picture

Your taking stuff out of context (post #151311, reply #34 of 36)

Jacob:

Read my last post more carefully.  I clearly stated it was not the case that I thought anybody was wanting a rounded bevel.  What can I tell you, sometimes I get sloppy (rarely but it happens) and accidentially dub over an iron.  I'm not the first and I won't be the last.  Clearly I'm not a sharpening fanatic.  Just want to get the job done and back to the fun stuff.  I use to sharpen the thin irons freehand, but unfortunately I'm not as steady as I was in my 40s and younger. 

Have fun with your rounded bevels.  I'll stick to my flat ones.

gdblake

We're all here because we're not all there.