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Is the Klausz-Frid-Scand Bench dead?
I know, I know... this has been beat to death already, and I'm not looking to start a fight, but here goes...
I'm in the early stages of building a new bench. I've got most of the wood (local elm and hackberry) and some of it's even dry.
I'm intuitively attracted to the Klausz bench for the kind of work I do and would like to do (and just because), shoulder vise and all. But I have noticed a trend in the publishing world that favors Roubo style benches or modifications with face vises. I have not yet gotten my hands on a copy of Schwarz's newest book, but have read quite a bit (o.k., more than I'd like to admit...).
My question is, is the traditional (northern) european bench dying or merely in eclipse of fashion? The only design factor that I can see really being an issue is that the Klaus bench doesn't have a flat face and leg plane for clamping, but htis would be easily accomdated by modifying the front leg design. Am i missing something? How much more time does a Klausz bench take over a Roubo? A cynic might say the trend has to do with selling vises, but i'm not one of them :)
As a side note, I'll be ordering hardware sometime over the winter and am wondering if anyone has used either the LN tail vise and shoulder vise screw or the LV versions of hte same (i presume these are imports). I like the idea of the LN (made in america and all) and am sure it rocks, but am not sure its worth nearly 4xs as much for the combo. Alternatively, is there a good source for a wooden screw for the shoulder vise?
Thanks all.,
C
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Why not . . . (post #157881, reply #1 of 59)
Why not combine all the features you like from the various designs? A KlouboFridScan?
Ralph, Obsessing over (post #157881, reply #17 of 59)
Ralph,
Obsessing over workbench details is necessary if you want to keep up with the times. In past decades, woodworkers built a bench and got on with using it. Nowadays, we still build a bench and get on with using it - to build a sequence of benches which we can use to test various bench features. The idea of using a bench to make things other than benches is a quaint one, but very old. I am trying to become a modern person, so I gotta go and
- download some ebooks to my Kindle
- do some socializing on Facebook
- do some Twittering (or is it Tweeting)?
- build a few more benches.
Actually, building benches is an admirable passtime. It provides excellent aerobic exercise if you use handtools to do it. Also, it is easier on the psyche than building a new dining room suite. If you do the latter, the wife is always complaining about various details. If you just build benches, the wife doesn't bother you with trivia. Building a string of benches is really not all that bad an idea. I read in a Russian version of Ripley's "Believe it or not" (which is called "Believe it or else", that there is one guy who is on his 275th bench now, and has come up with some new ideas he wants to incorporate in his next bench.
Now it is time to inject some truth and reality in this message. For decades, I used a "bench", or actually a "table with drawers that Sears called a workbench". I clamped wood to it using ingenious methods and I was able to get things done. A few years ago, I bought one of the Sjoberg benches. I haven't checked to see if its design is optimal, but I gotta tell ya - it is a lot of fun to use, especially compared to that old Craftsman table.
I decided on the Sjoberg for two reasons. One, I work part time for Woodcraft so I got a phenomenal price on it, and secondly, FWW rated it second only to a LN workbench. They downrated it compared to the LN because the LN had a shinier finish. I called up the guy who wrote the article, and asked if a shinier finish was a feature or a flaw. He said that after writing the article, he bought the Sjobergs bench. I took that as a sign from God (well, maybe not God, but from FWW).
Oh well, time to get back to the shop. Enough wordsmithing pleasure for one day. Time to actually make something.
Have fun,
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Obsessions vs. Compulsions (post #157881, reply #18 of 59)
Mel, I agree that many modern woodworkers, including myself, may tend toward the obsessive. But, since we do these things slowly, at least we're not compulsive, as well. Then again, if we make multiple benches, does that make us compoundsive? (I just love making up new words.)
Please sit down before reading further. I'd hate to be responsible for any injury that might result from you falling over from shock.
After 40+ years of doing this, I've yet to make my first bench. Early on, I ran across a great deal on an old wooden desk - 36" x 72" with full-depth drawers, 2" thick top, heavy, etc. It took up the space that a real bench would have occupied, so I've been stuck with it ever since. I removed a shallow drawer at the top of the stack on the left side, and installed a wooden-jawed front vise. It's the right height for carving while seated, but not real handy for planing or hand-dovetailing. But, it's there, and was almost free. I get by, suffering the social stigma of being bench-deprived. Please don't tweet about this, though. If my bench depravity were widely known, I'm not sure I could handle the shame.
On the other hand, should you want to send me a Sjoberg (the big Elite, with cabinet, please), or an Ell-Enn (easier to pronounce), I'd probably retire or re-purpose the old wooden desk with glee.
Raplh, Sounds like you have (post #157881, reply #19 of 59)
Raplh,
Sounds like you have a great bench, and you should continue to use it. Some smart guy once said, "The purpose of new technology is to keep people reasonably unhappy with what they own." If you are happy, then ignore the bench builders and sellers, and ENJOY. I made my first workbench out of 2x4s and scrap plywood from the building site where they were constructing the set of apartments that I was living in. Of course, I asked permission. They were happy for me to take anything that was in the dumpster. I used that bench for about seven years. Then I bought the Craftsman table with drawers that I used for decades. It wasn't until last year that I bought the Sjobergs, after David Savage came for a visit. He said my workshop was more than adequate except for the "table". I gotta admit that he was right. I like the Sjoberbs much better than my old table, which my son in law now has. In woodworking, we never throw anything away.
I didn't buy the cabinet that Sjobergs sells to go into the workbench. I made one with nine drawers and full extension slides, which I like much better. I won't tell Chris Schwartz that you and I are using workbenches with storage underneath. He says that is BAD! But what does he know? He is merely a writer and editor. Interesting comment from David Savage when I asked: What do you think of David Charlesworth as a woodworker. I believe that it was a kind and nice response indicating that a professional woodworker makes and sells woodwork. I guess that under his definition, Chris and David would not be considered professional woodworkers. I enjoy reading Schwartz because he writes in such a way to cause me to think. However, once I have thought, I often come to different conclusions that he does. THis is not a bad thing, and probably something to be expected, since we have different backgrounds and experience.
Great to hear from you. Keep on cranking out those masterpieces.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hmmmmm (post #157881, reply #20 of 59)
So, Mel, should I interpret this to mean that you are not going to buy me either a Sjoberg or and LN bench? (LOL)
Ralph, I am surprised by (post #157881, reply #21 of 59)
Ralph,
I am surprised by your message. I had planned to personally design and make a bench for you which uses the best features of all benches. However, since you seem more interested in store-bought than hand-made, I guess I will not continue with my play to build you a bench. :-) The best laid plans of mice and men..........
Besides, I would hate to deprive you of the joy of using your current bench. No one should ever knowingly deprive another of sheer enjoyment. Certainly, I wouldn't do that.
Mel
PS from the speed of your response, I would guess that you are spending WAY too much time on-line. So How would I know that. Well, I must be doing the same thing. Actually, I am spending way too much time updating the website I made for my 50th High School Reunion, which happened a week ago. I have been asked to post a lot of photos of the events. That means, one has to know the names of everyone in all of the photos........... all of which means TOO MUCH TIME ON LINE! Oh well, I volunteered for the job.
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Excellent point. Indeed, (post #157881, reply #2 of 59)
Excellent point.
Indeed, this is my plan (I've already been thinking of it as the Scando-Roubo); basically a Klausz top with Roubo-Klausz hybrid base.
I think my questions mostly revolve around 1) is the shoulder vise going extinct? and if so why? Because there are better designs? Because it's a pain to build? Because Roubo is (now) the sexy thing in town?
Cheers,
C
To my way of thinking, the (post #157881, reply #6 of 59)
To my way of thinking, the Roubo with its leg vise is more oriented toward stock prep, dimensioning, squaring and jointing rough timber, and the Scandinavian style bench is more oriented toward joinery and carving. Although I know how to do the former set of procedures with hand tools, in practice, I generally use machines to just get that part of the process over with and then focus on the joinery, carving, shaping aspects of hand tool usage (i.e., the fun stuff).
So no matter how much Popwood wants to write about the Roubo or produce DVDs, etc., it won't ever be exactly "in style" for me.
Building my fourth workbench of my lifetime, now, the first one with a cabinet base. Take care, EH
PS: Just out of curiosity, will you let us know if you find a source for large diameter wooden threads - I have a wood thread kit from Highland Hardware that goes to 1 1/2 inches diameter, but above that diameter, I'd have to learn to carve threads - I know there was an article on this in FWW years ago.
Location: Western Montana
C, A few months ago we did (post #157881, reply #3 of 59)
C,
A few months ago we did a workshop where there were new benches using three variations of the new "Roubo" design. For what we do and for the people taking this workshop, the new benches were lacking. I'm not sure why the joiner's bench from Roubo is the pattern, there's also a cabinet maker's bench in Roubo.
I've been working on a sort of a European bench for quite a few years. I find the tail vise indespensible but I'd probably just use something patterned after the old Record vise for a shoulder vise if I was making one again. My suggestions for changes to the Klaus bench would be the Record style vise, move the legs at the tail vise end to the end of the bench to avoid sagging over time, and to angle the small ledges in the dog holes at 45º to keep debris from building up. The debris will keep the dogs proud of the top when attempting to lower them all the way.
Roubo Ha Ha Ha Needed to sell some books and magazine articles (post #157881, reply #4 of 59)
Oh that's fine, I enjoy the history lesson. I enjoy reading about the days of Zeppelins to. Doesn't mean I would ever want one or get in one.
>small ledges in the dog holes / debris from building up<
Let me say this about that . . . when I cut my dados for the dog holes I could not see a reason to make the ledges so I didn't.
Yet.
I figured I could always cut 'em later with a chisel. Just as I was typing this I just thought that perhaps with enough pounding the resting dogs ( if you will ) might drop through to the floor if not ledges. Not had that problem yet. If the dogs not being used fall through so what.
I wanted to experiment with wooden dogs before moving on to metal ( might need ledges for store bought metal dogs ). I could easily make metal ones with or without brass face to protect during plane to dog contact.
I just have never felt the need to move on from wooden dogs. After all Klausz puts a chunk of wood between his metal dogs and the work so why not just use wood dogs ? I could see myself putting thick leather on a few of the wood dogs for some applications.
I use purple heart dogs with strips of hack saw on the side for a spring with the teeth ground off. Works great/don't fall out.
Now what is all this about the Roubo style benches ? I have read the Chris Schwartz book. Great book ! I recommend it ! Interesting investigation.
I have no desire to have one of those benches. Doubly so after the last bench he built with all the cracks in it. Why use a big old unstable chunk of wood like that when one can build the top out of lams or all quarter sawn edge glued or just any thing besides what he last used? Looks massive I will give it that but if one needs that kind of mass go to the brick yard or iron scrap yard and get serious about some real ballast but put a stable top on it with out the glacial crevasses.
>Record shoulder vise<
Surely we aren't talking about one of these things see pic bellow. Nope nope must mean some other. I built my Klausz with that thing to get away from that thing. How does one cut dovetails in a Record rails in the way vise ? Never mind I won't.
>Sagging tail vise<
Could be a problem. That's one reason I built the ways on the vise with purple heart as well as the top. Extra strong, extra hard, waxed the heck out the parts, hoping it will do well.
Can always add a layer of wood and recut it like new to compensate for wear.
Looked hard and long at it and still do. I don't get the Roubo. For me the Klausz was and is the only answer.
How long to build a Klausz ?
Oh . . . I don't want to talk about that.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Just start with something (post #157881, reply #5 of 59)
Just start with something simple and not too elaborate--maybe some SYP for price. Search the web as there are a few articles out there for benches that can be built in a weekend and fairly cheaply. Start using it and record what you like and don't like. I'm on my second real bench and I'm a few month's away from beginning some remodeling on it. I like the height, I like having a front apron with a face vice built in, I like a tail vise.
I don't like the tool tray. I don't like how I space my dog holes. I don't like the overhang I have. Remember, a bench should give you a reference surface to clamp to, but you need to consider the clamps while building the bench.
roc -- more info? (post #157881, reply #11 of 59)
roc-
I am a bit intrigued by what I think I see in your This_is_better_than..... jpg. Any chance you can provide a couple more photos and info?
Thanks,
Alan - planesaw
Oh sure (post #157881, reply #14 of 59)
That's a deep throat bessy clamp through the Japanes planing beam and I used it like a shoulder vise.
I cut the wooden jaw to take the plastic covered swivel foot end of the screw. I also cut the jaw to take the nonswivel end of the clamp jaw. I made some smaller jaws to fit over the clamp jaws while I was at it.
Can easily flip over the front adjustable jaw so the open end is to the right. the pic shows it open on the left.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
I am with Ed (post #157881, reply #7 of 59)
Roubo has been made popular by Chris Schwarz, but IMO is overkill. My next bench will be designed after the Klaus Frid model.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
"But in too many cases we find that we are constantly dealing with what is urgent, and not with what is important. They are not the same. " David Ring on running a ww business.
Eighteen months ago I finally (post #157881, reply #8 of 59)
Eighteen months ago I finally built a Klauz bench and still love it. After struggling with face vices while dovetailing I wouldn't want to give up the shoulder vise. Haven't found any changes yet I'd want to make. Just my two cents.
Thanks all for affirming my (post #157881, reply #10 of 59)
Thanks all for affirming my intuition.
Ed your observation about rough milling vs. joinery and carving nailed it for me. Here's the only source for large wood screws i've found, but they only do long screws for leg vises as far as I can tell, not short ones for shouldler vises.
http://www.lakeerietoolworks.com/
Tony, I do have a bench, made of 2x4 SYP in fact, with a couple lousy vises. It was a whooping $25 and I was thrilled to get it then and it still does a reasonable job. I'm finally getting to the point where I feel i'm beginning to outgrow it, though.
lwilliams-- sorry to hear the Roubos were lacking--what was missing for the students, specifically?
Roc, thanks for weighing; glad to hear you are still largely satisfied with your design. Why'd you pick purple heart (aside from being stunning?). Roc, did you put in a tool tray?
To all, what's a good source for bench hardware--do I need to save my scheckles for LN or will offerings from LV / Woodcraft do just as well?
Thanks again,
C
C, There were several (post #157881, reply #12 of 59)
C,
There were several issues with the "Roubo" benches. The dogs were too far from the edge of the bench was one of the biggest but the round dogs were limiting in their ability to stay in place, adjustment below the surface, and their spacing. The lack of the faces of the tail vise made holding the pieces we were working on at the angle needed impossible and neither of the two styles of shoulder vises were suitable for the work. People in the two different workshops we did over seven days struggled with coming up with work-arounds for the limitations of the benches. There were also two Klaus style benches in the room and those working on them didn't have the same work holding problems but those benches were too tall at about 36". Those working on the Klaus style benches couldn't get above their work to get the control of hand tools they needed. Good benches aren't that difficult but a lot of things have to be right if benches are going to work with you instead of against you.
BTW, Roubo shows more than one bench in his tome. I don't know why the joiners bench has been popularized when he also shows a cabinetmakers' bench with a functional tail vise.
I made my first traditional bench at 36" and it was too tall. I built a platform to work on until I replaced it after an orthopedic surgeon explained it was one of the main issues that had me on the fast-track to rotator cuff surgery.
You raise a good point about (post #157881, reply #13 of 59)
You raise a good point about bench height (sorry about the pun). Just this morning, I tried planing while standing on a platform because my current bench is 36" and my bench "should" be ~33" according to the Klausz formula. All I can say is WOW, what a difference.
As far as time invested, I agree that its not justifiable to build a furniture grade bench if the primary goal is to crank out work. I'm one that loves to fiddle with and make tools, so for me it's win-win.
Cheers,
C
"think'in things" (post #157881, reply #15 of 59)
C,
Auw O did it again; masive post
( : |
Sorry to be tardy responding, had to work yesterday (that's a good thing) and then couldn't figuuuur where I got the shoulder vise hardware; see bellow. Rather than wait and maybe forget to post this here goes.
>Why'd you pick purple heart (aside from being stunning?).<
It was in the previous post but if you want elaboration : I did not choose it for the color or look. I chose purple heart because it is very heavy, strong, stiff, resists dings and is relatively inexpensive. (purple heart is some of the strongest wood in existence and about half the price of most of the others of equal or better strength.) Ok and should last best for the tail vise (teak coming is second; slicker but not as strong ) Did I say easy to work ? No. I DID NOT say purple heart is easy to work.
The figure and iridescence were pleasant surprises. There is no finish on the wood. I just hand planed it and used it. The wood oozes just a tiny amount of goo from the pores and so the surface is not as slick as maple would be. It sounds nasty but I am talking microscopic amounts of goo. Turned out to be just right !
I got the idea from researching. I was looking for the strongest, hardest wood I could get my hands on. Why not ? Anyway the wood properties charts in Nick Engler's book are terrific.
http://www.amazon.com/Nick-englers-woodw...
Originally, before the bench was even wanted, from his charts I discovered bubinga. I only cared about finding the strongest wood for making some other wood working tools and when I discovered what it looked like, especially with the right finish I was very taken with it. Of coarse like all things that are too good to be true bubinga is endangered and so the love affair ended and I won't be building much else with it but I have a few fine things. The price is well up there and the availability in my immediate area is limited. Next best thing was purple heart and it is cheep, relatively.
I began with purple heart because I wanted a super strong wood that was even more affordable than the bubinga because I needed some thick stuff to make my work bench out of. Again I was surprised by the fine appearance; iridescent figure that came up in places. In this case no finish at all just polished plane blades ! Some of it is bland and uninteresting in the extreme. Some of it is the most beautiful thing. Right up there with the throat of a humming bird when it looks as if it were lit up with lights and batteries from the inside ! ! !
>tool tray? <
Yes and no. Yes it is in the design, my version, and yes I bought and cut the material. No I have not cut the dovetails and installed it yet. See the post where I reveal, to the heart break of my fans (?) and followers (?), that this bench is a work in progress and I finished it far enough to allow me to work on some other projects that I had been working on (that was the point I got fed up with silly work arounds and half fast benches ) and as Kurt Vonnegut, Jr says "So it goes".
Bet you didn't realize you could put that shoulder vise together with the long all thread through the whole bench and use it without cutting the dovetail on the end cap etc. Can be done. Works great. Best to just finish the bench but other projects were pressing. And I work full time. And there were Netflix movies that had to be watched and . . .Enough lame excuses.
Back to the tool tray . . . I too was in a quandary. There was one instance where I think if I had had the tray then a tool would not have inadvertently pushed off the back of the bench to the floor. In the same breath it may be more for a room full of workers who do not have room between the benches for a rolling tool cart to put tools being used on. I will eventually install it and find out.
> Hardware<
I looked at vise hardware in great detail from a metal worker's perspective a few years ago when gearing up to make this thing.
Tail vise hardware : It has been many years and I am too lazy to look up my receipts but I am pretty darn sure this is the tail vise screw I used :
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2000308/...
I bought it because it is German made rather than China or Taiwan and because it is 1-1/4 diameter rather than 1-1/8 ". It is just that when it comes to woodworking tools I would go to G before C or T.
Shoulder vise hardware : I am not sure of my source for the shoulder vise screw. May have been Woodcraft or Garrett Wade. The finish on the threads are smooth and finished and it seems I could only determine that in person so maybe Woodcraft.
The Lie-Neilsen looks really good. Do they make them ? In the USA ? That would be great.
As far as the cry to do this work bench with as much power tool as possible and get on with the other, probably easier , fun (?) projects that is logical ! ! !
But.
As with all "think'in things" there is a realm out side it. Good or Bad may not even reach that realm . . .
Oh sheet was I getting out there ? Bad roc, bad . . . back to the question . . .
For the average Joe, me, it is rare to tackle a project of that kind of material on that scale, Three inch dovetails ! ! ! Jointing cantankerous wood like that by hand. Sharpening all those blades to those weird angles.
What a good time. Well a learning experience for sure.
I learned a heck of a lot through the struggle. Building my own bench like that with handtools has prepared me for quality work with fewer failures later on. Read : "everything else seems easy in comparison".
Now would I build my third or fourth bench all by hand ? ? ?
Hmmmmm . . .
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Roc, Your logic and choice (post #157881, reply #16 of 59)
Roc,
Your logic and choice of purpleheart is sound. I'm planning to use elm because i have free source, it's local, and should serve well (did I mention free?).
Thanks for the link to the german screw, I hadn't found that one. I'm inferring that you used a metal screw and built the rest of the tail vise (traditional full-on Klausz) rather than using a metal tail vise assmebly?
Sounds like it continues to be a grand journey. I'm curious what projects have gotten in the way? (I haven't seen post to too many of your projects).
On an unrelated note, I saw that you labeled your photo of the LN 4 bronze as a plane you look at (but don't use?). Curious why there too.
Thanks again for the insights advice and encouragement.
C
Bench designs and free time (post #157881, reply #9 of 59)
The question leaves out the time factor.
I want to spend what little free time available to me making things, rather than tools.
I have two benches, one on casters and the other solid on the floor. They're the same height.
The free wheeling bench handles my bench hook and lighter planing.
The immobile bench is for cutting and chisel work. It has a Taiwan made Emmert knockoff.
I can't see investing the hours in either the Klausz or Roubo when what I want to make is cabinets, tables and chairs.
I know of four talented woodworkers that spent many long hours to build beautiful workbenches that they can't bear to use.
If they are out of fashion (post #157881, reply #22 of 59)
It might be important to note that Chris Schwarz is not a furnituremaker. Not by a long shot. By a very, very long shot.
Frank Klausz is and Tage Frid certainly was. Chris Schwarz seems to have developed an obssession that Popular Woodworking is more than happy to indulge. If you need an imprimatur, why not go with that provided by real furnituremakers and not obssessed dabblers? If you open a shop building millwork for French royal palaces then by all means go all out and build a fleet of Roubos.
So, If the Klausz/Frid/Scandanvian/German bench is out of fashion, "dead," etc. it shouldn't be. The design is one unsurpassed for holding component parts of furniture while the parts are being planed and while joinery is being cut. Note that these benches are not meant to be assembly tables except possbily for small subcomponents . A 'true' Roubo, not one with add-on iron vises draped all over it, is simply not a furnituremaking workbench. One with vises bolted on all over the place is an aesthetic abomination IMO. Any idiot can glue up a gaggle of two by fours and bolt purchased vises to it. And apparently lots have.
If you make furniture you don't need to modify a set of Frid or Klausz plans one millimeter other than to build your bench at the correct height as previous posters have mentioned.
You can buy tap and die kits for making your own wood screws. Or you can make your own tap and die - see an article in the old black and white version of FW.
Thanks for the unvarnished (post #157881, reply #23 of 59)
Thanks for the unvarnished view, i'm coming to agree.
I've gotten hold of a copy of Schwarz's book and am now even more curious. I'm now thoroughly convinced that a Klausz bench is what i'll go with, with a single modification ala Schwarz that seems perfectly sensible. That is to have the front legs flush with the apron to facilitate clamping of panels in the shoulder vise.
What I'm really curious about is the fact that, in my reading of Schwarz's book, he professes that shoulder and tail vices are his preferred method for most of the tasks he lists. Yet the Roubo.... His rationalization is that shoulder and tail vises are hard to make. Clearly, there is a big tradeoff between spending time building a bench vs. projects, but i'm surprised that he doesn't encourage and inspire his readers to push to build the more complex designs, even if offering the Roubo as a good place to start or as an intermediate step. Perhaps it's the focus on the 'popular'. Anyway, I like generally like his writing and think his book on workbenches is a good contribution. I don't believe in scared cows, but am also a student of evolution and think that the Klausz bench has seen plenty of selective refinement.
I have seen tap and thread kits for wood screws, but only up to 1 1/4 " I'll check out the old article, but am curious if you know of a source for larger screw box kits (e.g., 2").
Cheers,
C
varnish (post #157881, reply #24 of 59)
Few of the opinions expressed on Knots come unvarnished, or let's say, unfinished. Some, however, provide more of a shellacing than others. ;-)
Ultimately, I think each of us has to decide on what mix of features best fits the way we work, what we make, and the space we have. No design is going to satisfy everyone.
You just gotta love how entertaining an unsupervised spell check (post #157881, reply #25 of 59)
-er can be at times. I think I know what you meant but maybe not. Perhaps your last post belongs in that whacky religious thread :
>I don't believe in scared cows, but am also a student of evolution and think that the Klausz bench has seen plenty of selective refinement.<
I'm still laughing. Thanks for the misprint.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
You actually want to make (post #157881, reply #27 of 59)
You actually want to make sure the stretchers don't interfere with clamping longer stock vertically in the tail vise jaws. Locate the front stretcher so that its outside face is directly below the back of the tail vise. If the shoulder vise is 4" or more deep you won't have any trouble securely holding vertical stock.
>obssessed dabblers?< (post #157881, reply #26 of 59)
Heyyyy now . . . !
I resemble that !
| : |
: )
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Workbench Design (post #157881, reply #28 of 59)
The traditional Klauz type bench has been around for a long time for a reason. That said, most of us work differently now than they did a hundred years ago.
I believe that you should build a bench to suit you and the way you work. I have read several books specifically on workbenches, and the one I liked best was Scott Landis' Workbench Book. His book is liberating because he never says one bench fits all or that this or that is the only way to go. Rather, he has countless real world examples of how different people have made benches to suit them and the way they work.
I think anyone building a workbench for their own use must incorporate function, personal style, and ergonomics into whatever design they choose. Personally, I like Adjustable Height Workbenches. :)
Charlie Kocourek
ergonomics (post #157881, reply #29 of 59)
You said it. That's huge. People dismiss that too easily. Who wants to bend over a low bench , like mine, if they use routers and sanders mostly and trying to handplane with a large plane using a tall bench that is made for the power tools, as was mentioned earlier, is difficult at best.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Klausz and the late Tage Frid (post #157881, reply #30 of 59)
Klausz and the late Tage Frid are/were fully evolved cabinetmakers - they paid their dues in traditional European apprenticeship programs, run/ran successful businesses, held important teaching posts, can get it done with machines or hand tools, the whole enchilada.
I'm way more interested in their thoughts about workbench design and workshop flow and methodologies than Chris Schwarz's. That doesn't mean I don't think Chris isn't a nice, earnest guy. He is. There is a lot to like about him. He is just way down my list of go-to sources for information about furnituremaking and related subjects.