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Goodbye and hope to see you in other places
Goodbye and hope to see you in other places (post #146531)
dgreen on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 14:23
Knots has been jasoned and is now completely revzoned, I'm sure you can figure out the translation. I'm done here. See you all on other forums.
To Gina and Matt and David and the others that served us so well and are stuck with jason's droppings, Thank You for your service and I wish you the best.
Best regards to those that made this site what it once was, and a pox on those who destroyed it.
Don Green
Former proud Knots member and contributor.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
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I may be only a 23-24 week (post #146531, reply #1 of 81)
I may be only a 23-24 week wonder - but boy, it's about time, good riddance. I think I will be rejoining the conversations now that this portion of negativity is gone. I think it is very telling that he found it necessary to point out his absence.
by the way - I like that I can now add photos to replies!
You know, dude, dgreen may (post #146531, reply #2 of 81)
You know, dude, dgreen may have been a bit opinionated and all, but he was here a long time and always had something to say; often worth listening to. I agree with dgreen that this change has been very poorly done, as I have said in another thread, if he worked for me, the dude in charge would have been fired, both for how badly it has been done, and for the letter he wrote chastising anyone who had the temerity to criticize him.
I didn't often actually (post #146531, reply #3 of 81)
I didn't often actually disagree with him, that said I quite often disagreed with his tactic for expressing dissent as it was oft done without regard to the message he was trying to express or the human being on the other end. For that matter, his type of diatribe is often the reason progress is slowed.
in addition to terminating people who wreak havoc - dgreen would have been on my list for the extreme negativity and lashing out at people who did not agree with his entire premise including his penchant for name calling. In the end I feel he was mainly disputatious regardless of his former input.
On this one, it's OK to (post #146531, reply #7 of 81)
On this one, it's OK to change your mind, per your signature.
We all know that Knots is provided at no cost, and is a resource that lives by the privilege of Taunton. That said, long time forum citizens prior to your joining Knots have been vocal about what can be done to improve magazine content and promote forum discussion. Unfortunately, it's a never ending thread, and its infinite life span has nothing to do with the members.
It's courteous to tell your food server why you're not leaving a tip, and DGreen is informing Taunton that the order is wrong, the fries are soggy, and the beer is flat. Shortly, I'm sure, I won't eat at this restaurant either, for many of the same reasons.
I don't know why I'm even (post #146531, reply #14 of 81)
I don't know why I'm even seeing a post from dgreen. I blocked that jamoke years ago. I say good riddance to bad garbage. He was, is and always will be a jerk.
Don, I wish you the best. (post #146531, reply #4 of 81)
Don,
I wish you the best. This place will be the worse for your loss. I will miss you. I don't show up here much anymore. Your assessment is right on. WHatever problems we used to have, they were trivial when considered in the light of the spirited discussions that were held. I miss many of those who are gone.
I wish you the best, old friend. You have style and personality. You have my private email address. Drop me a line when you figure out where you are going to hang out online.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Take care Don.. I am sure I (post #146531, reply #5 of 81)
Take care Don.. I am sure I will see ya around in another galaxy as I do hang out in Woodworking Projects on another net-work and have frequented that one for over two years. Been here around 10 but did go into hibernation the time they changed the format to the one before this current.
So... I'll keep my eyes open for you elsewhere.
Regards...
Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
I will copy what Mel (post #146531, reply #6 of 81)
I will copy what Mel said...
I wish you the best, old friend. You have style and personality....
Some will miss you. Even me!
Have a great day.. Life is wonderful even if you are having a bad day!
Don, Don't go. It's only a (post #146531, reply #8 of 81)
Don,
Don't go. It's only a bit of discomfort, after all. You must think of your correspondents despite that libertine (I mean libertarian) streak. :-)
In truth I confess the greatest disappointment concerning this change is not the nature of the web pages and navigation but the howls of protest and chucking of teddies from the pram by various otherwise sensible folk. It really does amaze me that fellows can take such umbrage at a minor environmental flicker in their lives.
Still, many have so it must be me - perhaps my queer British stoicism concerning such things. I feel there are many much more damaging events in human society than a change to a web forum's look & feel.
If you do disappear it will be our loss; and one more nail in the coffin. In this sense it will be you and other deserters who are depleting the Knots life force, not some yoof of a web designer, even if he does suffer from a degree of yoof-pomp.
Lataxe, long-armoured agin trivialities (watching out for the real despoilers and life-suckers).
Lataxe: Your argument that (post #146531, reply #16 of 81)
Lataxe:
Your argument that the technology changes are, in the scheme of life's slings and arrows, trivial and it makes no sense for adults to get themselves all hot and bothered.
However,design is the discipline through which we make products intelligible and useful to their purchasers. A company that goes out of its way to make things easier for its customers implies that its customers are important to them and deserving of their respect.
THe release of this site by Taunton, the subsequent mega-whine from Jason, and the slow response to fixes says, to me at least, that Taunton have little regard for me as a customer. Every time I see the "save" button, instead of "post" I think of it as a big f**k-you from the proprietor. Why should anyone have to figure out that save means post?
So, it is not the site, per se, but the message that goes with it that deserves our protest. As Jason said we are "users"; he would do better to think of us as customers.
It is sad to see DGreen pick up his bat and ball and leave. I like my forum spicy and he certainly added that to the mix.
H
Hastings, I read your reply (post #146531, reply #33 of 81)
Hastings,
I read your reply to Lataxe. I have always liked the way you think. Keep on posting.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Best of luck Mr Green. You (post #146531, reply #9 of 81)
Best of luck Mr Green. You will be missed. I'm hanging around a little longer to witness the possible furneral of this forum. I'm hoping that some folks will cherish the freindships they created, and the knowledge bank available here before leaving over issues like software. I wouldn't bet my 401K on the future of this site. But I'll ride this bus a little longer as the fares are affordable.
God Speed Mr Green
Don, Will miss you and as (post #146531, reply #10 of 81)
Don,
Will miss you and as Sarge said, I'll keep an eye out on other shores. Maybe on the creek.
Bon Chance
John
Don, I have to agree with you (post #146531, reply #11 of 81)
Don, I have to agree with you 100%. You are somewhat like me; to tell it like it is, and let the chips fall where they will. I have seen you reply with info on machines in minutes. You are a storehouse of knowledge. Best Wishes whereever you decide to land. I am not here much anymore either, I don't have your vast knowledge, but do know a few things. :<) Maybe I will run into you in your future home.
Bruce
I don't understand the need (post #146531, reply #12 of 81)
I don't understand the need for the drama, the personal obituary etc.
Don
It is all about passion. (post #146531, reply #18 of 81)
It is all about passion. Woodworkers are a passionate bunch, and the better woodworkers are the more passionate. This level of passion/participation may or may not fit your picture of what the forum should be, and that is fine. Those that communicate their passion, or drama as some would call it, only wish to be heard, more as an effort to be recognized and linked to others that are experiencing the same sense of loss.
Taunton made a cold business decision to kill the forum in away that would absolve them of guilt. People feel betrayed since they spent the time and effort to make this a community they felt a part of. Taunton only provided the frame or skeleton, the participants - as many and as diverse as there were - are what made the forum attractive, useful, informative and friendly. Participation is way down, and still dropping, and no word from Taunton or those that made the decision to kill the site.
So....Anyone interested in that pool I suggested on when Knots last day will be?
"This is how it ends, not with a bang, but a whimper" - as the poet wrote.
"It is all about (post #146531, reply #19 of 81)
"It is all about passion."
Writing your own obituary to the "community" says nothing about passion, but lots about ego. No is held here, members come and go.
Some of the more "seasoned" contributors got a bit to comfortable with the forum and could not/would not adapt to the changes. Hmmm when has that happened in history??? Ah the dinosaur yes iI think that is it.
Now there is lots of good discussion happening in this forum, perhaps not at the sam level, not the coffee shop endless digression, but good discussion for perhaps a new group of woodworkers. This forum is certainly no worse than many others out there so I think your little pool idea holds little merit.
"People feel betrayed since they spent the time and effort to make this a community they felt a part of."
But in fact has there been a betrayal?? I think not. The forum is here, no charge, come one come all, some minor hiccups for sure but the site is here and it does work.
" Taunton only provided the frame or skeleton, the participants - as many and as diverse as there were - are what made the forum attractive, useful, informative and friendly."
And what has changed? Nothing other than a number of bruised egos have fled, some quietly some with fanfare. Taunton is still providing the framework etc., all of the topics are seeing activity.
For sure your silly idea of a pool has no merit.
Don
PS Did anyone notice we can post pictures to replies?
it is people that make the (post #146531, reply #21 of 81)
it is people that make the forum. taunton just supplied the vehicle.
I first came to look at this forum 4 or 5 years ago and I think what put me off at that time was a thread on using epoxy glues to put furiture together and a couple of other trhreads that were along the same vein. I never came back here until just before christmas. I doubt that I will stay as there is always that whining about what someone else has to do to make it better. I see a lot of wannabees on all the sites. everyone is so sensitive to what is said. it is a public forum. if you want to put your work out there to be seen, you have to be prepared for what may come your way. I realize that everyone's work is the greatest thing in the world unto themselves
there is a big difference between what your wife or friends say about your work; they will all say that it is nice and don't want to hurt your feelings (most of them are not really informed themselves what is good or not good). It is all encouragement.
then comes the real world and this is where the real test is sometimes and your ego may get smacked a little, but you have to take that and learn from it and most here do not question what someone sometimes says. you either go away and pout or come back with guns blazing or someone else that doesn't know that much will come out and defend them. always question what someone says , they may be right and you may learn something
I find it very difficult to get a dialoque going with anyone on these board and by that , I mean questions and answers going back and forth.
back to the original poster. here is someone looking for attention. if you are going to leave , just leave
ron
http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac281...
Hello, I have been a member (post #146531, reply #13 of 81)
Hello, I have been a member here for 2 yrs. I don’t post much , as the site seems to belong to “ the regulars “ meaning to older group that is here. I personally feel that I don’t belong due to very short pockets, and can’t play with the top end woods or tools. I see little discussed here in the actual working of wood, it just seems to be a place of “shiny chisels, thousandths of inches, and constant complaints”. I was taught by my parents to respect other peoples opinions, treat them as equals, if you can’t do that then shake hands apologize, and walk off as a gentleman. I guess it’s your choice from here on to stay or leave, should you chose to leave, do so politely and with grace. garyowen
Hello Gary - I agree - if you (post #146531, reply #15 of 81)
Hello Gary -
I agree - if you leave do so as a gentleman - however the site does not work as well as before, but we are hanging in there.
What I would like you to expand on is " the site seems to belong to the regulars"
We need to increase readership - do you see something that is hurting posters from continuing here other then site glitches?
SA
Weschester, I will certainly (post #146531, reply #17 of 81)
Weschester, I will certainly be glad to post a reply I will do so soon as possible. garyowen
To Westchester, And All. (post #146531, reply #20 of 81)
To Westchester, And All. While I understand things have changed, and some, are of the opinion not for the better. As I said in my other post I am new to the Knots Forum, with this being said, I have been on the out skirts of town for quite some time. We ( wife & I ) have Comcast Cable for our phone, internet, and tv, in those 7 years, there have been many changes in service, as well as online. With each change I had to relearn how things are done, I am self taught in computers & woodworking, some things are more of a challenge than others, some people are faster learners than others, yet I find for me having to read the same thing twice, brings me to the same point as you are after, reading it once. I do believe in the freedom of speech, how ever constant complaining about what You made special, You worked so hard on, you made this site what it was, doesn’t help any one here. If you can’t give some constructive feed back on any topic with out b---h--g and moaning, it is of no benefit to any one and in that respect we all lose out. So with that said, we should all go back and reread the directions, try to help each other out and get on to a new start. ( P.S. The comment you is not meant as an affront, to any individuals here.) Hope this helps garyowen
"I personally feel that I (post #146531, reply #22 of 81)
"I personally feel that I don’t belong due to very short pockets, and can’t play with the top end woods or tools." There's plenty of room for humble shops here! Lots of history too. Sarge built oodles of furniture with his Ryobi table saw. I certainly inhabit the lower half of the monetary spectrum, and any time I post asking about "which machine?" I always make it clear what my budget is (or is not).
So, if anyone out there is holding back because their shop isn't equipped with all Festool and the like, fear not! Come out and join the others who exist on a shoestring or slightly more budget.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey Gary - I understand your (post #146531, reply #24 of 81)
Hey Gary -
I understand your reply and in my opinion believe many on the site are hoping a snow ball effect of dissatisfaction will get the powers that be to take notice and work on repairing the disagreeable changes. All here were comfortable with the site the way it was -the change is not welcome.
Anyway - ignore those who won't use their knowledge to chip in helpful constructive comments and would rather fight on.
- maybe this is a chance to voice some constructive ideas. So here goes -
I like to read and learn from the talanted folks here - I also like to help others who I realize from their posts are new and seeking help - however it's fustrating to me when another poster wants to outgun your efforts by answering the question
with a 1000 word essay and causing doubt in your good intentioned comments.
I hate to think I must be a word smith to contribute here -
I'm really just a tradesman seeking out commonalty.
I'm hoping those with advanced writing skills keep their pen at bay.
I'm also hoping for spell check ASAP - maybe even grammer check -
SA
Westchester, I read your (post #146531, reply #26 of 81)
Westchester, I read your reply, and agree that long replies are more often than not confusing. I also want things explained simply,as trying to see it in your head is some times confusing, and very long explanations just make matters worse. Here is a little trick my wife taught me, it is to type this out on Microsoft Word works, if you have it. Word works has spell check, and dictionary lookup. When I am satisfied with the response I push at the same time, ctrl c, go to the response box, and click as if I am going to post, then press ctrl v, this will transfer your comment to the box, then just press the save button. This is how you fix bad spelling, punctuation, and a host of other problems, with out the need to repeat grades 1 thru 12. I have spent a lot of time here today as I was asked for my input, any one here may join in if it is constructive please, lets try to tap in to some good juu juu (? Not in spell check), leave our sharpness to our tools, an not each other, and work on things we can change, like, bad cuts, embarrassing dove tails, and me, my least favorite the dreaded mortis and the ill fitting tenon!!. garyowen
"it's fustrating to me when (post #146531, reply #29 of 81)
"it's fustrating to me when another poster wants to outgun your efforts by answering the question with a 1000 word essay and causing doubt in your good intentioned comments.
What yourself and Gary say has some validity. There are however many times where I've seen short, sharp and succinct responses to questions that are wrong, even dangerous and merely spread bad information that only sounds plausible on a forum but doesn't stand up to serious scrutiny; typically the bad information starts because someone who probably doesn't know much about the subject puts out a poor but superficially plausible response to a question on a woodworking forum, it gets picked up by the next respondent and the next thing you know it's all over the internet like a bad dose of pox.
Some questions really do need detailed information on background theory and science before a useful response can be provided. And if that is the case the answer is likely to be involved and wordy. The alternative would be for the questioner to go and read up on the subject in some depth using reputable resources, eg, books written by acknowledged experts in their field, etc, but if they did that they wouldn't have a question because they would have found the answer for themselves. Slainte.
richardjonesfurniture.com
Mr Chester, This plea of (post #146531, reply #30 of 81)
Mr Chester,
This plea of yourn:
"I hate to think I must be a word smith to contribute here -
.............I'm hoping those with advanced writing skills keep their pen at bay".
Now that is a strange attitude, I must say. Why must everyone keep to the same level of written expression arbitrarily chosen by W Chester esquire? Does the same apply to woodworking skills? Perhaps we all must confine ourselves to pockethole joints or wax finishes?
I do sympathise with a desire for posts that are to the point, even if not short. (Richard Jones is right to suggest that some subjects need full explanations). Also, it is pleasant to read unambiguous as well as comprehensive prose if someone is either describing a problem or supplying an answer.
There is also the matter of presentation. Great blocks of undifferentiated text, long rambling sentences of confusing grammar and dully repetitious drones are wearisome. Let us not forget to condemn, either, those expressions of confused and often prejudicial opinions that are free of supporting argument and often riddled with self-contradictions.
*****
Writing in a forum does need to condense matters to their essentials perhaps. One wishes to grasp the question or answer reet-quick and without the need to imbibe 28 irrelevant mentions of the poster's emotional state or life history..... Although some characters are quite fascinating and one almost hopes they will embark upon a ramble into estoteric matters, as it can be educative to see how ferners and strangers think.
As with woodworking, it is no bad idea to increase both the range and degree of one's skills when it comes to self-expression in speech or writing. Isn't this what life is fundamentally about for us hoomans - the joy of finding things out then employing the results.
Some lads get the idea in their wee heeds that "I cannot do that". Perhaps you have persuaded yourself that you cannot get better at self-expression or the parsing of less-simple prose? I assure you that you are deluding yourself here as all it takes to gain these skills is (as with any other skill) the desire to do so and the work involved in getting there.
Unless it's just laziness of course. :-)
At present I am learning the classical guitar. This is extemely difficult for me and progress is very slow. Is this a reason to give up or persuade myself that I can't ever do it (even if it will take another decade)? Just the opposite in fact.
Lataxe, wary of low common denominators
PS Perhaps you also need to distinguish between people who disagree with you, giving reasons, and those who seek to "outgun" you. It is not an automatic question of your good intentions to question some aspect of your opinion or to dispute something offered as a fact. On the contrary, it is a compliment to be engaged in a meaningful discussion as it shows that your interlocutor takes you seriously.
PPS I do hope this post is not too wordy for ye. :->
Friends Just to be clear - (post #146531, reply #32 of 81)
Friends
Just to be clear -
I'm not trying to spread dangerous woodworking information around the Internet - nor am I suggesting limiting freedom of expression.
Rather we should help folks by answering the question asked - and not debate each others responses.
My comments are for the sake of increasing readership - lets not loose posters who feel slighted by responses directed at their posting. The opening post here is by a guy who is leaving - nobody wants that and everyone on this site should feel welcome. We will increase readership with that approach.
There is a Lady on this site who has been a long time supporter.
She doesn't always agree with comments however she can word a response to a comment in a way that helps the thread and not push away a poster. We should all try to help the site like she has for so many years.
SA
"I'm not trying to spread (post #146531, reply #35 of 81)
"I'm not trying to spread dangerous woodworking information around the Internet
I don't believe you are SA, and I didn't suggest that I thought you were doing so. I pointed out that there are times when a short response doesn't answer a question as effectively as a longer response would-- a long response, where it's appropriate, gives such things as the reasons why a particular course of action is appropriate, or includes a short description of the background science or theory behind a particular recommendation so that the recommendation itself makes sense to the person that asked the question. Slainte.
richardjonesfurniture.com
Thanks for the reply Sgian (post #146531, reply #36 of 81)
Thanks for the reply Sgian -
Good to hear from you -
I'm proud to be part of this group who have the exact same interests as mine -
SA