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Shellac as a conditioner but not the dewaxed kind

Woody_Woodpecker's picture

Shellac as a conditioner but not the dewaxed kind (post #170591)

I’m overwhelmed with so many options that my head is spinning. I need  help in figuring out what finishes are available for an interior Dominos table. I used white pine although soft for a playing table it was reasonably priced. I originally used water-base stain (EF General Golden Oak tabletop and General Green dye for the legs) on bare wood but it was blotchy so I sanded down to start over. Then I saw a YouTube to create your own conditioner for evening out the stain absorption.  I mixed 1 to 1 SLK denature into Bulls eye Shellac and used it before staining. The Stain took, nice grain very little blotching. Ready for applying an Env. Friendly Polywhey exterior finish, easy settling. Now for my dilemma I used the wrong Bulls eye Shellac I needed to use the Seal coat DEWAXED shellac. My question, what are my options for a finish now? The playing table will be used indoors, drinks may be put on top (although I included coasters on every corner), I’m concerned about Toxins in the finish, and scratching easily (not normal wear since it’s pine). What kind of finishes will adhere to a wash coat that is not dewaxed? I have books i just don't know what finish to use because so far they all say to use dewaxed shellac.

SteveSchoene's picture

you still have plenty of (post #170591, reply #1 of 9)

you still have plenty of options.  Any of the non-poly oil based varnishes will work fine.  The easiest to find locally will be Formby's Tung Oil Finish.  Its not oil, its a soya based alkyd varnish.  Expensive wipe on varnish.  Waterlox is excellent and tough, but dark colored.  Behlen's Rockhard is also excellent.  All of these varnishes will resist water quite well.

No varnish, however tough, will make pine harder. 

As far as toxins, when any  clear finish, in the US, cures, it is non-toxic.  The curing process essentially encapsulates all the potential l toxins, such as minute amounts of metallic driers, into plastic.   The allowed formulations have limit on the amountof "leaching" allowed, to assure that toxins remain encapsulated.   

Test your finish on scrap, FIRST, or risk having to scrap your finish.

SteveSchoene's picture

you still have plenty of (post #170591, reply #2 of 9)

you still have plenty of options.  Any of the non-poly oil based varnishes will work fine.  The easiest to find locally will be Formby's Tung Oil Finish.  Its not oil, its a soya based alkyd varnish.  Expensive wipe on varnish.  Waterlox is excellent and tough, but dark colored.  Behlen's Rockhard is also excellent.  All of these varnishes will resist water quite well.

No varnish, however tough, will make pine harder. 

As far as toxins, when any  clear finish, in the US, cures, it is non-toxic.  The curing process essentially encapsulates all the potential l toxins, such as minute amounts of metallic driers, into plastic.   The allowed formulations have limit on the amountof "leaching" allowed, to assure that toxins remain encapsulated.   

Test your finish on scrap, FIRST, or risk having to scrap your finish.

Woody_Woodpecker's picture

Shellac not the DEWAXED (post #170591, reply #4 of 9)

Thx

Westchester's picture

Finishes (post #170591, reply #3 of 9)

Lightly sand the shellac not touching the color - than recoat with dewaxed shellac - and you're back on track -

SA

Woody_Woodpecker's picture

The wrong Shellac not the DEWAXED kind (post #170591, reply #5 of 9)

thx

IdahoDon's picture

the wax covers the surface of (post #170591, reply #6 of 9)

the wax covers the surface of the shelac, which can interfear with top coats bonding correctly, which is why light sanding can normally get rid of the wax layer.  However, with a wash coat there isn't enough of the shelac above the surface of the wood fibers to make sanding a good alternative.   Personally I'd wipe it down well with mineral spirits and clean rags then use whatever finish I wanted to originally.  An additional wash coat of unwaxed shelac will disolve the wax and it will flat to the top of the new coat, not doining much to solve the problem.

 

Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

roc's picture

That sounds right (post #170591, reply #7 of 9)

IdahoDon nailed it,

Removing the contaminate with solvent is the way to go.

mineral spirits for sure (not denatured alc)

I know from other applications where there is a wax like contaminate, on metal for instance, sanding just smears the contaminate around and does not remove enough of it.

Solvent first, one or two times, each time wiping the surface with clean dry rags or paper towels are even cleaner, then if there is a reason to sand then sand.

No reason to sand in this case, the dewaxed partially dissolves the previous coat to hook up to it.

PS: better late than never eh? 

Have you already finished the table?

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

Westchester's picture

Nailing it ? (post #170591, reply #8 of 9)

The wax in shellac is not only on the surface.  You can wipe it down but never entirely remove it since it's mixed into the finish. Mineral spirits can leave a residue between the next coat. If you recommend MS than recommend cleaning off what that solvent leaves behind.   Light sanding is to create a tooth and level grain raise or anything foreign on the first surface. Light sanding is not for removing wax.  

A recoat with the correct shellac is all you need to work toward a positive result. 

SA

roc's picture

Ah O (post #170591, reply #9 of 9)

Hmm, suppose it depends on the brand and grade ?

http://www.dickblick.com/products/gambli...

link says :

  • It evaporates 100% and leaves no residue in paint layers.
  • artists require a higher grade of mineral spirits than many industrial users, including the complete absence of residual sulfur.

So it sounds like the residue from the cheep stuff is sulfur.

and

wax IN the shellac

I stand corrected.

thanks

PS : can any body tell stories of problems with sulfur contamination in shellac finish?

Makes it cloudy I imagine.

PPS: we used this kind of stuff at the Audi and Mercedes auto paint place I used to work at.

http://www.autobodymaster.com/product_li...

roc

Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )