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Oil over lacquer?

VAM's picture

Oil over lacquer? (post #169652)

VAM on Tue, 01/24/2012 - 12:49 (updated 01/24/12 - 01:55) 
in

I have some cabinets about six years old.  Face frames are solid cherry as are door rails and stiles and drawer fronts.  They were finished (not by me) with a catalyzed lacquer.  Now they need some touch up.  Mostly on stile ends and rail edges.  I'd like to sand the areas lightly, wipe on three or four coats of Waterlox, then rub out to a sheen that matches the existing finish.  Does anyone see any problems with this approach?

-A +A
hammer1's picture

You are likely to have (post #169652, reply #1 of 8)

by hammer1 in reply to VAM [original] on Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:52

You are likely to have adhesion problems, Waterlox needs to go over bare wood for the most part. You would have better luck with a lacquer. Something like Deft is easy to do with a brush and should be more compatible.

Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

Westchester's picture

Re-coat (post #169652, reply #2 of 8)

by Westchester in reply to hammer1 [original] on Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:05

I think poster has a decent chance to recoat over the original finish.  Good prep is important - maybe a barrier coat.

I've recoated over finishes with varnish many times without adhesion problems.  However the adhesion risk does exist but my thoughts regarding the risk are a little more optimistic - try the back of one door and see how it works out -

SA

hammer1's picture

Sounded like the OP wanted to (post #169652, reply #5 of 8)

by hammer1 in reply to Westchester [original] on Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:59

Sounded like the OP wanted to just touch up some worn spots, not completely recoat or strip. He also asked about Waterlox which is a bit of a unique animal. Staying with a similar finish like a brushing lacquer would probably be a closer color match than anything that was more amber or water white. Just guessing without seeing the cabinets.

Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

VAM's picture

Which Deft? (post #169652, reply #3 of 8)

by VAM in reply to hammer1 [original] on Tue, 01/24/2012 - 17:27

Deft makes lacquer, oil and water based finishes.  Are you suggesting their brushing lacquer?

hammer1's picture

Yes, Deft lacquer, I think (post #169652, reply #4 of 8)

by hammer1 in reply to VAM [original] on Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:54

Yes, Deft lacquer, I think they call it Wood Finish where the poly is Defthane and the oil is Deftoil. The lacquer is available in gloss and satin. If you are just touching up worn areas, a lacquer will come closest in color and the Deft is pretty versatile. Oils and varnishes will impart an amber tone and they may have problems sticking to existing lacquer. Waterborne polys will be too clear and may also have adhesion issues. Try a sample on the back side of a lower door.

Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

SteveSchoene's picture

Some catalyzed lacquer (post #169652, reply #6 of 8)

by SteveSchoene in reply to VAM [original] on Fri, 01/27/2012 - 09:40

Some catalyzed lacquer products don't accept topcoats well so you could have some problems.  You would need to sand with 320 grit in order to get a thorough, even scratching in order to get the Waterlox to adhere. 

There seems to be a lot of confusion about Waterlox.  It is NOT oil.  Tung oil is an ingredient in the manufacture of the product, just like flour is an ingredient in bread,  But the final product is varnish, pure and simple.  Not oil and varnish mix like Watco, but just varnish.  It has no need to be applied to bare wood like the oil/varnish mixes do.  Waterlox is a good tough material, but I'm not sure it will work well as just a touch up, in part because it is a relatively dark varnish. 

I suspect that your best solution would be to scuff sand and then spray with a pre-cat lacquer product, such as the rattle cans sold  those by Behlen (not a waterborne product mascquerading as lacquer, pre-cat or otherwise.)  Here is a url for one such product. 

http://shellac.net/BehlenAerosols.html  I've not used this but it looks like it may well fill the bill. 

Test your finish on scrap, FIRST, or risk having to scrap your finish.

VAM's picture

Thanks (post #169652, reply #7 of 8)

by VAM in reply to SteveSchoene [original] on Fri, 01/27/2012 - 12:09

good link

sid works's picture

Mohawk (post #169652, reply #8 of 8)

by sid works in reply to VAM [original] on Sun, 01/29/2012 - 00:39

puts out a product called "pour and wipe" M503-3016. I cleaned up a fair sized kitchen, must be 7-8 years ago that had peoblems around the handle  and the frt of the dishwasher and a few other places. good wash with tsp and a good sanding with 320-400P paper and start in. it is not a 1 coat job

ron

http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac281...