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Aging/Staining pine

raynb3's picture

Aging/Staining pine (post #108979)

I'm refinishing the pine trim in our 1930's cottage - stripping all the paint off, sanding, staining, and finally, poly on top.  Did a BR and the hall, looked great.  The kitchen and DR trim appears to be newer pine, probably from a remodel i.e., this pine is whiter to the eye and does not have that golden/yellow patina that pine gets from the years.  Any tips on how to "age" pine without having to create a new stain?  The hall and kitchen are connected via door, important to me that the wood color match.  I have never fumed furniture before, much less an entire room.  Thanks.

hmltnalan's picture

(post #108979, reply #1 of 15)

Ray,


Try a wash with ammonia.  That will add that golden/yellow patina you're talking about.  To some though (me included) the color is a little brash; but you can mellow it out beautifully with a wash coat of garnet or button shellac.


Garrett-Wade used to carry a pine-aging chemical which they claimed did the same thing, and there are various other wood-aging products advertised here and there.  I've never tried any of them.


Alan

twilliams1223's picture

(post #108979, reply #2 of 15)

would youy want to rinse it w/ anything after the amonia before appling finish?

Go Hokies!!!!!


Tom

Tom

 

 

hmltnalan's picture

(post #108979, reply #6 of 15)

Tom,


It's not necessary to rinse it after treating with ammonia.  So far as I know ammonia evaporates completely in a relatively short time.  I did read the part about it encouraging pets to urinate.  It might happen:  ammonia is a component of urine.  That being the case you might want to try rinsing it with white vinegar.


Alan

twilliams1223's picture

(post #108979, reply #7 of 15)

thanks.  going to start my second ever project, and want to make it "aged".  will this work with all woods or just w/ pine?

Go Hokies!!!!!


Tom

Tom

 

 

hmltnalan's picture

(post #108979, reply #8 of 15)

Tom,


So far as I know it works only with pine and various other close relatives.  There are lots of other common household chemicals, such as ammonia, lye, vinegar and bleach that have various effects on certain woods:  some will "age" the appearance of some woods; others will chemically alter the color; and so on.  Also, there are some not so common chemicals that can be used for similar results on other woods.


I'm sorry, but my journals are in storage right now and I cannot recall all of the various woods and substances.  Nor do I know of a good book on the subject.  Anyone else out there know of a good reference?


Alan

Gretchen's picture

(post #108979, reply #9 of 15)

It's not necessary to rinse it after treating with ammonia.  So far as I know ammonia evaporates completely in a relatively short time. 


I find this hard to believe and would not trust any finish to adhere over unneutralized ammonia. . I would wash it with white vinegar to neutralize and then rinse with water.  It is really going to raise the grain and it will be necessary to sand judiciously or you will be back to raw wood/non-aged.


Gretchen

Gretchen

UncleDunc's picture

(post #108979, reply #10 of 15)

I've never heard of anyone neutralizing fumed oak before finishing, and there are lots of fumed oak pieces out there whose finish is still sound. Why would ammonia that's applied as a liquid need any more neutralizing than ammonia that's applied as a vapor?

Bruce Hoadley's book Understanding Wood even describes saturating wood with high pressure anhydrous ammonia for bending. He says the ammonia is so volatile that the wood is only flexible for a few minutes after it is removed from the tank. He includes a picture of a piece that appears to have quite a lovely finish on it.

bill_1010's picture

(post #108979, reply #3 of 15)

if you have pets dont use ammonia on floors.   The slightest scent will encourage them to go... thinking another pet has marked this place...


 

eximreb's picture

(post #108979, reply #4 of 15)

Think about lynseed oil with a tiny bit of golden oak stain.


Good luck

Start the revolution with out me,Please
bill_1010's picture

(post #108979, reply #5 of 15)

mentioned on another post was the use of Tea (iced or hot it did not say) as a stain to help age pine.


Aging pine or any wood requires work or time.  ;-)

Gretchen's picture

(post #108979, reply #11 of 15)

From the Briwax site (lots of good info there) here is a method using lye.


http://pages.prodigy.com/briwax/map.htm


If you decide to give it a try:



  • Safety, safety and more safety. Safety glasses, gloves etc.
  • Prepare an area with safety in mind. Whether you intend to use vinegar or not have it around. It immediately neutralizes lye.
  • Use common household lye (if you can find it), mix 1 tbl sp. per qt / water, or mix 1 to 1 drain cleaner with water. Do so carefully. --a mild solution yes, but nothing is mild when you mess with this stuff.
  • Use a rag to apply, (a brush splatters) a rag folded and tied to a wooden ruler/yard stick allows for some distance from the body.
  • Start with a test piece. Checking timing, the solution quantity & strength for the desired results.
  • Apply to the surface. let set till it dries or desired time from your test, neutralize with vinegar to stop the process, wash down with water. Then let dry.
  • Wax out with the Briwax color of your choice, Light Brown is suggested. Don't forget that the Briwax shine is enhanced in luster & durability when used over Briwax Sanding Sealer

Gretchen

Gretchen

IanDG's picture

(post #108979, reply #13 of 15)

Also on the source that you referenced, Bruce Johnson, author of The Wood Finisher and The Weekend Refinisher writes:

" the undeniable truth is that lye does dissolve paint, just as it will burn flesh and cause permanent blindness. It is fast and inexpensive , but the risk it poses to your furniture, your family, your pets - not to mention yourself - makes any advantage pale in comparison. .... In addition ... lye also burns out the life of the wood, raises the grain, removes the color from some woods, darkens others, such as oak, walnut, chestnut, and ash and simply ruins cherry and mahogany. To make matters worse, once in the wood, lye doesn't stop burning until you douse it with vinegar ... Now, does that sound like your idea of a good time?"

Also, applying it with a rag on the end of a 3' stick almost guarantees it will be slopped onto adjoining sheetrock, flooring or paintwork.
Not the best idea in the world!

Gretchen's picture

(post #108979, reply #15 of 15)

People ask from time to time how to antique pine. This is a known way to antique pine.  It may not be the best way to do it for house trim.  The person needing the method can make the decision to use whichever one he/she wants to try for the use/application needed. 

Gretchen


Edited 12/29/2002 7:41:36 AM ET by GRETCHEN50

Gretchen

Splintie's picture

(post #108979, reply #12 of 15)

You may be working with different species of pine from the old to the new, or possibly not even a pine at all. Ponderosa pine (Pinus ponderosa) quickly takes on the yellow color, while Lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta) stays rather light-colored.


Ammonia works on tannins; the tannins can be added with tea, but they aren't present in pine like they are in oak. If you try for the fumed look, it will look gray not yellow. I'd do the simple thing and hit it with some Watco Golden Oak. Talk about yellow...


 

hmltnalan's picture

(post #108979, reply #14 of 15)

Splinte,


AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!  You're right.  Ammonia won't work!  I guess I was having another senior moment (though I did say I couldn't get to my journals).


I was thinking of LYE, not ammonia.  That's where I got crossed up with the vinegar bit:  you must use vinegar after treatment with lye.  (I feel so stupid!)


The method is just as simple:  dissolve the lye in some warm water and apply to the wood.  Start with a dilute mixture, you can always make it more concentrated if you're not getting the results you want.  Don't forget to rinse thoroughly with vinegar.


"Drano" is almost pure lye--but don't use it.  The part that isn't lye is some blue stuff that will color the wood.  You have to look for plain old lye; usually sold as drain opener.  Check "old fashioned" hardware stores first; they're more likely to have it than a chain.


Now I'm trying to remember...Is it lye that ages cherry so beautifully--turns it a really nice dark mahogany/red/cherry?


Alan