NEW! Faster Search Option

References/Catalogs for a new shop.

References/Catalogs for a new shop. (post #168126)

karlshikles on Sun, 07/10/2011 - 13:06

Business

I have a home workshop/cabinet business that I'm hoping to expand and turn into my full time living. First off, I've read some of the posts made by others with similar ambitions, and many of the replies have been less than friendly (read condescending) about trying to get into the industry under current economic conditions. Please save it. You won't have anything to say that I haven't considered already. Besides, I make a full-time income bartending part-time and my shop has zero overhead. I've already bought all of my equipment and have no pressing need to make any more money off of it than I already do.

I feel comfortable in my facilities and abilities. However, I was wondering what other small shop owners used as a reference catalog for the standards for various kitchen cabinet assemblies. Of course, you wouldn't be a custom shop if you couldn't modify the dimensions, etc, but I would like to have something that shows me the common dimensions and configuration of a pantry cabinet or microwave hutch, for example. The selection of books available on Amazon seems to be limited to references for the weekend warrior knocking out his own kitchen and don't seem to contain much that I don't know. Is there another source for industrial reference books out there? Does anyone just use the reference catalogs from a bigger manufacturer (e.g. Kraftmaid)? If so, could you get in trouble for showing these catalogs to clients so they can get an idea of the look of an assembly? I'm really excited to find out what materials are out there and look forward to your replies. Thanks in advance.

Hi Karl , You (post #168126, reply #1 of 8)

by oldusty in reply to karlshikles [original] on Mon, 07/11/2011 - 06:54

Hi Karl ,

You can easily obtain manufacturers specs and sizes with the main industry standard configuratiions .

You can show any pictures or catalogs to clients , the pre fab Kraftmaid type of cabinetry pretty much all offer the same same same thing just different door styles and finishes .

As you gain experience these catalogs will be less important as you will have your own portfolio or pictures of kitchens you have built to show your potential clients , a picture is worth a thousand words .

The only way a small custom shop can make it is not to do the same thing they can already buy from the big box store for less then we can buy the materials for , we must rise above that standard if we want to earn a living strictly from woodworking .The difficult part is finding clients willing to pay the price as there are fewer qualified buyers out there so finding your niche or market is paramount .

If you don't already , learn to draw , enough so that you can easily show the client on paper what to expect and drawing will help your design capabilities as well .

All the catalogs in the world won't make up for the experience gained from many years in the industry .

good luck to you regards dusty, boxmaker

Naysayers and References (post #168126, reply #2 of 8)

by jpwglw in reply to karlshikles [original] on Mon, 07/11/2011 - 08:35

Hi Karl,

I understand what you mean about the negative feedback regarding business opportunities in this economy. I used to run my own business in book production and I've heard plenty about economic pressures and this is not the right time and on and on.

It is always difficult to start a new business with its inherent new pressures (deadlines, quality of craftsmanship, satisfying the customers needs, etc.). But if you're willing to put in the work then go for it!

As far as references are concerned, I currently work part time at one of those big box stores, The Home Depot to be precise, and their pamphlets of kitchen and bathroom cabinets are an excellent source of reference material. There are dimensions listed and, of course, you can stay abreast of the current door styles and countertop styles as well. The Home Depot doesn't pay very well and they refuse to hire full time staff but, one of the "benefits" is that you can keep up with some of the latest design choices! (Not to mention many of the latest home construction techniques and products!)

I, too, am considering starting my own business in woodworking but, I'm leaning toward furniture restoration and refinishing. (Maybe putting my history degree to work, too!)

Good luck with your new business! Janet

Didn't get the name of the (post #168126, reply #3 of 8)

by DonStephan in reply to karlshikles [original] on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 17:00

Didn't get the name of the software, but recently I saw a quick demonstration of cabinet design software. Quickly and easily produced realistic renderings, easy to make revisions, and presumably gave cut lists. Don't know how much it cost, but could save hours drawing one set of cabinets and cut list would be a bonus. Probably can find ads for software in cabinet industry trade magazines.

ecabinet systems. (post #168126, reply #4 of 8)

by karlshikles in reply to DonStephan [original] on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 18:17

Don,

I already use ecabinet systems published by Thermwood. It's actually free open source software for anyone with a relevant business. The only catches are 1) that it has a very steep learning curve 2) if/when you get to the point of wanting to automate (with cnc machines, etc) it will only communicate directly with thermwood brand equipment unless you want to buy their decryption software that will let it talk to other brands of machines (last I checked, it was between 1500 and 2000). Neither of these seems unreasonable for such powerful software. I've attached a rough rendering of a library system that I designed with it. And yes, it generates cut lists and even nesting diagrams (where it lays out sheet goods to be cut in the most efficient manner depending upon how it's being cut).

I've actually been looking for more print references that are a step up from what's available from Amazon and wondered what other cabinet makers keep in their libraries.

Preview	Attachment	Size
	presentation_view.jpg	167.48 KB

Quite a few shops use (post #168126, reply #5 of 8)

by oldusty in reply to karlshikles [original] on Tue, 07/12/2011 - 21:28

Quite a few shops use Cabinet Vision , an amazing tool , there are a few others as well but these are not free .

Coupled with a CNC this is state of the art and for the most part has unlimited capabilities .

These are typically for largish production shops not small custom shops because the cost is so high to get in .

The down side , there is no concern for grain matching or putting what looks good in the right place .

The up side , the cnc can and one man can cut a job in a half a day instead of 2 days or so and with greater accuracy then we can achieve on cabinet saw old school type equipment ( like mine )

Panel optimizer programs are a wonderful guideline to gaining the best yield from your sheet goods until you get the knack of laying it out .

Until you have pictures of jobs you have built to show you can use magazines and other pictures to show different styles and finishes , why not use the catalogs of any lines you want for reference .

Make a few sample door styles , do some finish examples to have for folks to touch see and check out .

Profile references... (post #168126, reply #6 of 8)

by karlshikles in reply to karlshikles [original] on Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:37

Since I started this thread, I received my first invitation to bid the casework in a new custom home. While I've gone to school for construction management (including print reading, naturally), I realized that they didn't touch upon casework much. In these prints, however, they refer to arbitrary profiles for the doors and drawers (e.g. prs-2 edges and G-Cove on the panels, etc.). I can figure these out based on google searches, but are there any books out there that list these designations? I always feel more legitamite when I have industry references on hand. Also, I need to fill my new custom bookshelves in my office. Thanks again.

Yes there is but I can't (post #168126, reply #7 of 8)

by DonStephan in reply to karlshikles [original] on Sat, 07/16/2011 - 17:13

Yes there is but I can't remember the name. I expect the architect was using the standards for the specification given you. "Architecture cabinet guide" didn't find it using Google. You may get quickest answer asking an architect.

Oh yeah... (post #168126, reply #8 of 8)

by karlshikles in reply to DonStephan [original] on Mon, 07/18/2011 - 10:05

Bro in law is an architect...duh. Will post his answer for future reference.